Armchair Scout: Preliminary Reports From Central Scouting
ARTHUR:
Anaheim calling to the hockey world...
The 2010 Entry Draft, to be held in Los Angeles, is not so much a silver lining for this Ducks team as it is the focal point of an unavoidable rebuilding period. Right now, the Ducks have a great pick and an additional First Rounder for good measure (and I'll thank Murray to keep his grubby hands off both of them and let this organization use them). And so, today's Central Scouting report offers a little comforting news to a Ducks fan base that hasn't gotten a look at the top picks since the 2005 Draft Lottery.
The news? Taylor Hall's coronation is officially on hold.
Plymouth's Tyler Seguin now tops the much hyped Hall in Central Scouting's OHL rankings. Cam Fowler is still third, and the number of surprises across the board are few and far between (full Domestic rankings here, full International here). However, a little confusion at the top of this year's class is definitely to the advantage of a Ducks team that won't finish last (damned Toronto) and will need to get Giguere a few wins to increase his trade value.
Of course, Martin Madden could still opt for size and grit in Kirill Kabanov over the standard skill players, just as he did with Holland over Schroeder, but for now, Ducks fans should feel good about the potential pick that comes with these heartbreaking losses. And they should be praying for Cam Ward . . . every day.
And you know I couldn't leave without posting Central Scouting's NCAA rundown. The Irish's Riley Sheahan has attracted the most scouting attention this year, but I refer you to the WCHA watch, where Wisconsin freshman defenseman John Ramage is listed as a player of note. David McNab will probably have money to spend on NCAA free agents this offseason, but Ramage is the sort of player he might like to actually draft.
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size and grit in Kirill Kabanov over the standard skill players
Not sure if I’m reading this right, but Kabanov is hardly the gritty type. He’s got some size, but no mass. Really skinny. He’s being touted as being an Ovechkin-style player, but not without a couple summers of dedicated weight training and conditioning.
-Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future
Sorry about that. By size, I did mean height. As an armchair scout I try to use as much of the real scouting lingo as I read, and I think the word NHL-size is usually used to describe a player who has already filled out. I wasn’t trying to imply that here.
On the grit, I meant more nastiness (and that’s a subjective thing, I suppose, but I feel that way about his potential, that he doesn’t need to be protected), but I didn’t want to use ‘nastiness’ as that would imply there was anything nasty about Holland’s game.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
Again, maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I don’t see nastiness or grit in Kabanov’s game.
He might bring those aspects some day, but at present time, he’s too slight to throw his body around or otherwise be anything more than a skilled presence on the ice.
-Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future
Well, I don’t mean to argue with you on potential, Kevin. You’re certainly coming from an experienced place with Hockey’s Future, and I’m sure you’re tired of hearing people drink the Kool-Aid from Allan Muir’s article on Kabanov and next year’s prospects, saying he has nastiness, or even that of scouts that have seen him “add an edge” to his game. I can understand if you guys at hockey,s future disagree with that and are totally tired of hearing it.
And while I detest DETEST being a Kool-Aid drinker, I see it, even if I accept that it’s subjective. He hasn’t laid the big checks or scrummed yet; he hasn’t earned that portion of his supposed Ovechkin-like potential. But he does use that body, even if just to follow the puck into a crowd, chase on the forecheck, protect the puck or stand on the doorstep in front of the net. He’s confident with it, even if it hasn’t filled out yet. I see him as the kind of forward who won’t be diving, drawing calls or succumbing to cheapshots. And I like the way he uses that wide stance in the offensive zone, like Ovechkin sometimes does, and like Ducks fans recently saw Artyukhin do in Pittsburgh. I’m not sure how many cheapshots and stick checks can get into that guard.
Anyways, this seems like a lot of talk about a one-off comment I made to criticize Martin Madden for passing on a small skill player who interviewed poorly for a faux power forward who interviewed poorly, a criticism that stems from me being a Gopher fan more than anything else.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
to clarify I love Kool-Aid. I detest proverbial Kool-Aid.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not trying to argue, just wanting to clarify what type of player Kabanov is. I didn’t understand the use of the phrase nastiness when describing his style of play. I’m merely trying to inform, which is how I view my position, not just with Hockey’s Future, but with all my writing. I haven’t read Allan Muir’s article, but I’ll be sure to look it up. Any impressions I have of Kabanov are from my own viewings and from discussing him with my sources, but I must admit that it’s limited, due to the fact that he’s played just a dozen games or so and is now out for three months or so.
I can understand what your intent was, using Kabanov as an analogy for the Holland over Schroeder selection, but I don’t think Kabanov really fits that blueprint, simply because talent wise, he’s right up there with the rest of the top 2010 eligibles. I think a guy like John McFarland would fit what you are trying to say much better. But, that’s just me.
In any case, it’s hard to criticize the Holland pick (when compared solely to Schroeder) at this time, with Holland putting up a superior ppg from his previous season (although injured) and Schroeder struggling. But obviously, no one will know for sure for another five years. I remember when Smid was picked and there were fans yelling for Thelen or Meszaros.
-Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future
Well your voice is always welcome here, Kevin. I watch just a dozen Major Junior games every year, and I’m really more of an NCAA guy, so anything you have to offer to inform or to contradict, we’re happy to get it.
Allan Muir’s article is here, and I’m sure you’ll find informal scouting reports that refer to “an edge” now in his game, information perhaps sourced from the scout that Muir spoke with. I guess after seeing him play, I’ve joined that Kool-Aid drinking majority.
On the Holland/Schroeder thing, I don’t really know what Madden was thinking, but both players are certainly skill players. And it would seem to me that Madden simply went with the guy with size. That’s without getting into the specifics of why either reportedly interviewed poorly. To me, Kabanov was that same size plus skill equaling the POTENTIAL for a power forward. I really feel Holland is too much of a perimeter player, and I had that confirmed when I watched him in Anaheim’s power forward drills in camp. He is great defensively, though.
Holland’s injury is a shoulder thing, I think, unexpectedly nagging but not supposed to affect his play. And from having watched every televised Gopher game this season, I can tell you Schroeder is struggling for a number of reasons that don’t show up on the stat sheet, but really don’t affect my opinion of him right now. I wanted Schroeder because he seemed like exactly what we needed in the cupboard. Not that I agree with drafting for need, but I couldn’t believe the Ducks passed on a dynamic scorer. But again, biased.
Why John McFarland? Seems to me he was undersized. I wouldn’t think of him as someone the Ducks would draft on a size upside.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
I threw out the name John McFarland simply because he seems to fit the blueprint of the “enigma, gamble pick” that Holland was/is saddled as. McFarland’s size is close to Holland’s, I believe and both of them seem to have that “has all the pieces to the puzzle, but are they ever going to put it together” stigma to them.
Part of it is likely due to being highly touted at a young age, which for some players starts to affect the development and lowers the compete level.
As for Schroeder, I don’t follow much, other then what’s been shared by HF staff. He was close to being listed as an NCAA player “Trailing the Play” in HF’s recent “Leading the Rush” article. Any insight on his struggles?
Two quick things that sort of came to mind:
Size
The one thing with size, is usually, a forward who washes out/doesn’t develop into a scoring role can fill in lower in the lineup, perhaps as a defensive specialist or a checker. Witness guy’s like Rob Niedermayer. Now, it’s a lot easier for a guy who is 6-1 to become a checking forward then a guy who is 5-8 (witness Geoff Platt, Andrew Ebbett and Ryan Shannon). So if, in fact, the decision was purely down to Schroeder or Holland (which we’ll likely never know), maybe the Ducks chose to sacrifice a bit on the absolute top end to ensure they get a player who they think they can reasonably turn into, at the very least, an NHL player. But again, who is to say. Schroeder could have been below Palmeiri on Anaheim’s draft list for all we know as each team views things so differently.
The other thing I wanted to mention is the idea of preconceived notions. I guess this goes along with the Kool-Aid talk. I remember talking with a scout from Nashville a couple years ago, talking about 19 and 20-year-olds in the QMJHL. Usually, these guys, if they aren’t already drafted, likely aren’t going to be and maybe have a chance at a tryout or a contract after the fact. The Predators scout said that he always likes looking at them, to get fresh eyes on them (his reasoning was every team needed some guys to fill out their AHL team and things like that). He stated that one of the things that he sometimes saw happening was that knocks against a player would continue, merited or not, because that’s what was in the file. So there might be a weakness noted for a particular player in his draft year, that he doesn’t go into the corners first. As other scouts read the file and see the player, they’re just re-assuring that weakness, whether it’s as bad as it sounds or not, because they go to the game, see the player with that pre-conceived notion in their mind. I know I’m as a susceptible to it as anyone, when someone says something like “that goalie sure plays deep in his net” or “that defenseman sure gives the puck away a lot”, I start seeing it, even if I didn’t see it before, because now instead of looking at the player as a whole, I’m looking for that single flaw to appear. It’s one of those things. The next time (well in February) I see Kabanov play, I might end up focusing on his fiestiness and then all of the sudden, I’ll see it. Purely because I’m looking for it. It’s a dangerous thing to get caught up in and definitely something to try to be cognizant of.
-Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future
I definitely agree on the preconceived notions, and I find myself fighting them with NCAA players. There is no longer anything scrawny about Justin Schultz, for example, but I still hear about it, as though no one can read his bio in Wisconsin. But on performance knocks, I really feel that that’s why it’s necessary to play well when the scouts are in the house. Holland didn’t do himself any favors there (even though I have not, to date, seen anything that amounts to consistency issues).
Before Moncton, I would call what I saw from Kabanov “confidence with the puck,” and I don’t know when I began to read more into it, how much I was influenced by what other people were saying and how much I was projecting the image of Russians like Ovechkin and Artyukhin, whose confidence involves swatting checkers away. It’s definitely something I try to avoid in my more in-depth analyses for this blog. I dispel those notions when I can.
I get the size thing, and I definitely feel like the Ducks were able to bank on that with MacMillan. Even if he was a product of his linemate, we would get (and we now have) a checking line forward. But I think the really fast dynamic scorers dropped off after Glennie, and I, personally, saw Schroeder as an opportunity.
I would say there were stages to Schroeder’s struggles this season. He’s definitely had scoring opportunities and near goals before last weekend, but the Gophers opened the season feeling the absence of Ryan Stoa, then they couldn’t execute on the power play (where Schroeder is featured), and then they began to lean on Tony Lucia’s line after their early success. I think Nick Leddy’s injury damaged the team gameplan, but the injury to Barriball and the temporary injury to Hoeffel seemed to have helped Schroeder. I think he’s definitely back on track, and the team will start to rely on him again. Coach Lucia said it himself, no way Tony finishes this season as the scoring leader.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
woops McMillan. I usually get mad at ducks fans for that
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Brandon or Logan?
MacMillan is an interesting case. His father is a scout for the Flames out here and anytime he is in town, we usually have a chat. I recognize that I’m coming from a biased ground in that case and so I can only say that I hope he works out.
Brandon McMillan is peculiar due to his versatility. I can’t see him making it as a scorer at this point, although he is putting up over a point-per-game this year in the WHL. I also don’t know if he has enough time as a defenseman to ever make it as a blue liner. I’m interested to see what happens with him.
-Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future
yeah, no, I had it right the first time but didn’t trust myself. I meant Logan. I saw him play an ECHL game out here last month, and they’ll be in town again next month. The organization is being unusually careful with him, sending him to Bakersfield at the last minute so he could just spend as much time with the team as possible.
And I wouldn’t say Voracek makes him a bust, though I often do exaggerate and say that. I mean, after watching that first columbus/anaheim game this year, I could’ve played with Voracek and gotten drafted. From what I saw up close, sadly against ECHL competition, I think he’ll be a great bottom sixer or banger on the top six.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Haha, looking it over, I think that excerpt on the Gophers may come off as confusing to someone not following the team. I would oversimplify it by saying that the Gophers started to shift to a blue collar team because that’s where they were effective. That and an out-of-sync power play really made it tough for Schroeder to shine, per se. The offense is definitely missing an ally in Nick Leddy (and supposedly the plans for him were big), but conversely, Schroeder has actually benefitted from losing linemates and is finding a groove.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Nov 18, 2009 7:42 PM PST up reply actions

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