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More Or Less The Same

ARTHUR:

It's the rare offseason point-counterpoint here at Anaheim Calling. I wanted to get a couple of angles on Teemu Selanne's recent comments published in the International Edition of Helsingin Sanomat. In an interview, Selanne said his return to a Ducks uniform is likely if the team shows it still wants to win and if the team stays "more or less the same," adding that "Saku, too, is in a situation where he wants to continue to play in a winning team" and likening the situation to Formula One driver Kimi Räikkönen, who the Flash said would not come back to play for a "second-rate" team.

After a disappointing campaign last season, it's hard to say what "more or less the same" would garner the Ducks, and while Selanne has based his decision on the team's 'commitment to winning' before, he seemed to use the return of Scott Niedermayer as the most accurate gauge. Unfortunately, Niedermayer's return (and perhaps his ability to deliver with a revolving door of pairing partners) remains in doubt.

But boiling Selanne's words down to their simplest meanings, he's asking to keep the kids out of the locker room and to build a roster of established NHL players without giving away superstars. So, Daniel, should the Ducks resist rejuvenating the roster to keep Selanne and Koivu or should they go younger, even if it means losing Selanne and Koivu?

Star-divide

DANIEL:

I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this, since I've already said the Ducks need to re-sign Saku Koivu. I'm a big fan of Bonino and Deschamps, and I've argued on various threads that they might be able to step in and play well. Still, it's a question mark with rookies like that, and Randy Carlyle didn't exactly give Bonino a vote of confidence when he said it would take "a lot of hard work...to get that body a lot bigger than what it is now."  Bonino was listed at 190 pounds to start last year in BU.  That won't be enough to compete against the bigger centers in the Western Conference on a day to day basis. Deschamps is in a similar situation at 6'2" and 195, according to the Moncton website. Both could probably benefit from a year in the AHL.

Honestly, it might be the better hockey decision to go young. Letting Selanne and Koivu go would let Murray throw money at D and lean on Getzlaf and Perry to be competitive. But there's something about it that doesn't feel right. We've had to watch Selanne go once, and we weren't really the same for a few years. A similar thing happened when Kariya left. I honestly believe that Selanne only has 1-2 years left in those legs and he wants to spend them playing with Koivu and probably Kariya. It would be a phenomenal thrill for everyone who remembers the Dynamic Duo. I also think it would put the rest of the NHL on its heels. The hometown discount we might get from all 3 players (so they could play together) would make it well worth it to explore postponing the youth movement. I'd guess 8-9 million for a line of Kariya-Koivu-Selanne. Mix in the the other talent and the Ducks will be able to meet almost any defensive challenge. They'd also have a little bit of money to spend on D.

I know we try hard to make as many hockey related arguments as possible here, but this is pretty much based on sentimentality. Yeah, there's an argument that we don't have the forwards in the system who are ready for an NHL role. You can also say that No Selanne means No Koivu, and No Koivu means a drop off at second line center...again. But Selanne deserves to play for a winner, and he deserves to have that winner be in Anaheim. The Ducks are still very close to being a Cup contender. A little fortitude and blueline upgrades can go a long way. The Ducks should keep Selanne, sign Koivu, get Kariya and let the nostalgia run through the Ponda Center all through the playoffs.

 

ARTHUR:

I think, in your sentimental argument, you're letting one thing pass you by, which is that the Ducks are not a cap team, not even close.  Anaheim reported the second worst attendance drop in the NHL last year, and while fans are showing up in front of their televisions instead, the team budget will have to drop.  

Looking around the NHL, even the perennial contenders that undertake the sort of 'commitment to winning' that Selanne is talking about have had a rough go of it lately.  The Sharks are feeling the pinch of trying to keep the band together too long, the Red Wings had to part with Ville Leino just to make the numbers work last year, and the seventh circle of Cap hell is reserved for whatever it is the Blackhawks are trying to do for next year.  You don't think there's a danger, not just a hockey decision danger, but a fiscal feasibility danger in spending to the gills to prove our 'commitment to winning?' 

 

DANIEL:

I think this is a one or two year thing.  If they can keep the years low on the contracts, then the Ducks are making a fairly credible spending spree push for the Cup, and they will still have major pieces in place after it's over.  Moreover, even if they don't make it to the Cup, this is a last hurrah for Selanne and the Anaheim fans that watched him play.  He's answered the One More Year call for us; maybe it's time we did it for him.

 

ARTHUR:

I won't debate the feasibility of making that one-year team a reality, of moving around the pieces and contracts (namely Blake's or Lupul's), of finding the right seasoned defenseman to sign a short term contract, and generally just organizing a high school reunion in the Finnish Flash's honor.  But I will say that it's probably a lot of work, a lot of guile and a lot more than this team can manage, even assuming Samueli plays it fast and loose with the checkbook after his team missed the playoffs.

There are certainly things this team can do to ease Selanne's mind.  Sure, bringing back Kariya is something I'd like to see, and I'm sure keeping Selanne on a line with people he trusts is a big part of displaying the 'commitment to winning' for him.  But when Selanne was out, Sexton played well in his place.  At times, Beleskey looked better than Ryan on the top line.  So, if this team looks "more or less the same" as it did last year, then it will be a team where rookies come up big.

I completely support adding one or two affordable elder skatesmen to convince Selanne we're not rebuilding, but I won't play the 'GP' game we played last year, where we keep (and can't use) Boynton and send down Sbisa because the veterans are supposedly better equipped to handle the tough season.  A good team is one that finds a way to incorporate its rookies.  It keeps you in the black fiscally, but it also protects you from the complacency and habit that can contribute to the losing streaks that plagued the Ducks' 09-10 campaign.

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I’m drooling over a Kariya-Koivu-Selanne line.
I think a Kariya-McDonald-Selanne line might be more exciting to see though

by Nava22 on Jun 16, 2010 6:16 PM PDT reply actions  

It would be nice to see Paul retire in a Ducks jearsey. He has earned it.

by Newport Rebel on Jun 16, 2010 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Resigning Saku and Teemu is a smart thing for the Ducks to do. I am sure Teemu will not demand a lot of money to come back. If Saku comes, then it gives Bonino and Deschamps time in the AHL to start the season. I think the entire team will step up and try to win for Teemu. Even if we don’t make it to the playoffs, the Ducks organization owes it to the fans to allow Teemu to come back for one more year. As for Scotty, I would like to see him come back as long as he has a cap friendly number. If he came back for like 5 mil, we should be able to upgrade the d and who knows what will happen.

by Randy P on Jun 16, 2010 8:19 PM PDT reply actions  

I don’t think Scotty comes back for anything less than 6. Maybe 5.5, but he has to make more money than Visnovsky.

by Daniel AC on Jun 16, 2010 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kariya-Koivu-Selanne

id get to wear my old kariya jersey again without the white stick tape over the name and the word “ryan” written on it in sharpie.

by Mudhippy on Jun 17, 2010 4:23 AM PDT reply actions  

hehehe…i got a signed one..i could dust off..but i guess we’d have to tape over the number…i wonder what number he would choose?

2009-2010 Anaheim Ducks.."Hey at least were not the sharks!!"

by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jun 17, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would guess 54….

by Mudhippy on Jun 17, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kariya’s hero (Gretz) wore 99, so 54 wouldn’t add up the way it does with Ryan’s hero (Modano). 18 or something like that would probably be closer.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jun 17, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

it was a joke, seeing that bobby wore 54.

by Mudhippy on Jun 17, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

just a bad one… haha

by Mudhippy on Jun 17, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha sorry. I just instinctively reacted because people assume that Kariya chose 9 because of a player who actually wore 9.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jun 17, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

So who gets 9 is Paul comes back?

by Newport Rebel on Jun 18, 2010 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

OC register said Bobby talked to paul about it before taking it, so I don’t think paul would ask for it back or anything. don’t think bobby would give it back either, unless he thought Kariya’s return made a number retirement likely

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jun 18, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

so getting kariya means dumping lupul and blake… randy can’t and won’t make 3 scoring lines with what he’s got. i have no problem with a kariya-koivu-selanne line except i worry which kids will replace them in 1 -2 years… im not sure yet if big sexy is a full-time 2nd liner and belesky has shown flashes but we need more in the forward cupboard which is why this draft is crucial for our future with 2 first rounders

by Albert K on Jun 17, 2010 2:09 PM PDT reply actions  

Randy could make 3 great scoring lines with what he’s got, and you can give the kids some AHL time.

Beleskey-Getz-Perry
Kariya-Koivu-Selanne
Lupupl-Chipchura-Ryan
Brown/Bodie-Carter-Marchant/Parros

Blake is the odd man out, but someone has to get moved anyway. Lupul and Ryan get identical cap hits, or Ryan gets his 4.5 and you’re looking at 32-35 million up front. Ideal? no. Doable. yes. That still leaves about 20-22 million in cap space without counting D and Hiller. Not to mention the possibility of Moving Marchan’ts money in a trade for a D upgrade. This is just top of the head stuff.

by Daniel AC on Jun 17, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would be cool, but like you said it’s not ideal. I got shit for putting B-Ry on the third line (if we roll 3 scoring lines) so now I’m giving you shit. With whatever B-Ry gets paid, putting him on the third line would be a waste of money unless RC properly uses each line instead of the first two lines dominating the TOI.

That said, I think we’ve got enough offensive forward depth (in that line-up at least) to roll three scoring lines. Will it happen? Probably not. That’s why we’ve got to wait and see what Barstool Bob has planned for the off-season

There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.

by Natesaduck on Jun 17, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

If it was I who gave you shit, I can pretty much guarantee I wasn’t thinking the return of Kariya like I am now. That changes my point of view on the issue. I agree that with a three line set up like that, Carlyle has to rotate better. I guess we could put Ryan on the top line and see if Beleskey meshes with Lupul on the third line. The more I take this approach and actually dissect the moves and line combinations etc., I learn more and more about how difficult it is to make these moves. Being a GM or a coach is o much harder than I originally imagined it when I first started watching hockey.

by Daniel AC on Jun 17, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

It wasn’t you who gave me shit. I actually think it would be better to have Ryan on the third line because it creates more of a balanced attack. It becomes more difficult for the other team to defend against. Who would the oppositions’ best players match up against? Getz’s line? Fine, we’ll throw B-Ry at you and see how you handle that. Oh, and you still have a 600 goal scorer to worry about too.

I was just saying that it’s not ideal because you just don’t pay a guy that kind of money if he’s going to be playing on the third line. It also goes against everything Randy has shown us in terms of how he runs the forwards, ie 2 scoring lines, a checking line, and an energy line.

Nevertheless, the idea of rolling 3 scoring lines like that excites me

There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.

by Natesaduck on Jun 18, 2010 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, considering the fact that he’s a match-up coach, I find it interesting that RC has never tried the approach of rolling 3 scoring lines. You’d think he would be just as thrilled as I am about the possibility of freeing up certain players so they can flourish. It’s a shame, really

There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.

by Natesaduck on Jun 18, 2010 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Man… What weird young talent/retro duck vets this team would be.

by Mudhippy on Jun 18, 2010 4:50 AM PDT reply actions  

I hate crushing dreams, but I HIGHLY doubt that Kariya is coming back. He’d have to take a serious pay cut if we’re going to keep Scotty, Teemu, Bobby and Saku. That doesn’t include whatever Wiz gets in arbitration.

Can you imagine the ego hit Bobby would take for being dropped to 3rd line? Yes, it would be because of an excess of talent on the top two, but think about it. I remember a few games this past season where Bobby was dropped down to 3rd or 4th line and he was visibly upset (i.e. lethargic play).

One last question. Say Teemu doesn’t come back, are we officially “rebuilding”? I never thought of us being in rebuilding mode. I thought of us more as “redecorating” mode :)

"I'm not a lady. I'm a DUCK!" - Connie Moreau, D2: Mighty Ducks
Writer for http://www.anaheimcalling.com

by Jen Neale on Jun 18, 2010 8:30 AM PDT reply actions  

Until we lose RPG

I don’t think we’ll ever be considered rebuilding, especially since Hiller is locked up for a while too.

And I agree, Bobby on the third line is probably not a great move unless Randy significantly adjusts how he manages the lines.

by PhantomPretender on Jun 18, 2010 10:27 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don’t think Kariya is looking for another 6M on his next contract. He might go short term 2.5-3M for one year like Saku did so he can prove himself again and take 4M on his final contract. I don’t know if he’s seriously talking to the Ducks, but we could afford that.

And Bobby wouldn’t be moved to the traditional ‘third’ line. In the playoffs against us, Hossa played on a ‘third’ line. If Ryan centered a line of Lupul and Blake, that would be a 12M+ line. Nothing ego checking about that.

And while I don’t think our whole team is rebuilding, the blueline certainly will be without Niedermayer and without a major acquisition. I don’t think Teemu’s coming back to a Top 2 of Visnovsky/Wisniewski.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jun 18, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah that is the worst d in the nhl if lubo and wiz are number 1 and 2s

by Albert K on Jun 18, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

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