Getzlaf Economics: The Bridge to The Next CBA
ARTHUR:
This post isn't about Bobby Ryan, not really, though Bobby Ryan will serve as my jumping off point. A number of fans from a number of teams are saying the Ducks are lowballing the Cherry Hill native and using Getzlaf's low Cap number (even for the low Cap in which it was signed) as justification for it.
My main problem with this argument is that it assumes there is an absolute fair market value for every player and that every team is obligated to pay it. Now, I agree that the purpose of the Salary Cap is to create such a number i.e. Player X's production is worth X percent of the capped Salary, and in a world where Cap increase was based on what every team in the league could afford, that would be absolutely true. Only it isn't based on that, is it? And Eric Duchatschek of the Globe and Mail estimated the Ducks would be operating with a 46M budget last year. That's 10.8M below last season's Salary Cap, and while the Ducks spent more than the projected 46, you have to assume that doing so affected their profitability.
The numbers won't be prettier this year, and what's more, the Ducks will have one more offseason (perhaps two) before the next CBA in which they will be able to renew players like Dan Sexton, Luca Sbisa and Nick Bonino, all in the Getzlaf economy. So, moving forward, is it fair? Is it fair for players to have their salaries measured against a budget team's biggest and shrewdest contract as opposed to fair market value?
No, it's not fair, but it's the only way this is going to work. This problem is not a new one, and it isn't a phenomenon of the Salary Cap era. Ted Lindsay ran into this when he tried to unionize the NHL in the 50s and discovered that Gordie Howe was ridiculously underpaid, including negotiations where number 9 re-signed for a new Red Wings jacket. The point of unionizing, of making salaries public, is to lift everyone's boats and for every player to do better in their next negotiation than they did in their last. Also, as the Salary Cap increases, a player's value shouldn't be tied to the contract of a player that came to terms with the organization years ago and under different circumstances.
At the same time, the purpose of the Salary Cap is to protect the budget teams, who aren't making the kind of money that can compete in the open market. In the last CBA negotiation, the owners gave the players back four years of unrestricted free agency in exchange for the right to pay them on a controlled scale. That guaranteed budget teams the superstars they drafted, at least for a couple of contracts. But that system is being challenged, not only by an increasing Salary Cap but also by payment-on-potential and the erosion of the second contract itself.
You can certainly challenge the internal numbers of the Ducks and other budget teams that claim they would lose money if they spent to the current Cap limit, and no player should have to play for an organization that can offer neither a competitive salary nor a chance at a Championship. HOWEVER, show me another way that this works in a 30-team NHL.
Even before the Salary Cap, the Ducks had trouble spending money for sustained periods of time. In 2001, they traded Teemu Selanne rather than pay two of their players almost 20 million dollars, and they even agreed to pick up 3M of Selanne's 8.5M salary with the Sharks, making it a net gain of only 5.5M. And while Bob Murray's 46M budget may seem like an anomaly, former General Manager Bryan Murray was reportedly working with a budget of 45M the year before the Lockout. The growth of California hockey has yet to represent itself as a consistent force in the Anaheim ledger, so it's hard to argue that they should spend in anticipation of its explosion.
During this CBA, the Ducks managed to move from a Fedorov economy (6.1M per year after getting 10M of his contract before the Lockout) to a Niedermayer economy (6.75M per year) to a Getzlaf economy (5.325M per year). That decrease in scaled contract economics may carry them to the next Collective Bargaining Agreement unscathed by rising prices. If the players opt to extend the CBA another year, to September 2012, the Ducks can carry a final year of Getzlaf's contract into the new CBA or an eventual Lockout. And once the new CBA is negotiated, Anaheim will be one of many teams that would be helped by, and would thus be hoping for a drop in the Cap.
Is it fair? No. But the Ducks, as a budget team, should be rewarded for their shrewd contracts in the Salary Cap era just as surely as the Hawks, a cap team, should be punished for the pay structure they gave Brian Campbell. As teams construct their own economies, it will help some players as much as it hurts others, and without an absolute Salary Cap that successfully protects budget teams, this is the only way the system is going to work. If Brian Burke gave us one thing as he packed his bags for Toronto, it was Getzlaf Economics: The Bridge to The Next CBA.
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No different than the construction field two years ago….charging premium prices and never returning calls, vs now the boss returns calls and can get started anytime you want, market value is always just that….hopefully our team does not suffer by having to lose great players because we cannot afford to sign them…RC said it best when asked about re-building “In this town there is no such word” – we have to put a winning product on the ice every year, or the fans in SoCal will not stand for it. (Paraphrasing)
I absolutely think it’s okay to lose great players because you can’t afford to sign them. That’s like saying it’s not okay for me to miss a sale on a $5,000 HD TV just because I can’t afford to pay for it. If I end up paying the $5,000 or more to the credit card company over a few years, I’m pretty sure I suffered from that decision much more than just letting the TV go and figuring out my finances. The moment this team starts WRITING bad contracts, it opens itself up to high prices in negotiations and gives itself fewer opportunities to absorb bad contracts through trade.
This is not the Yankees. This is a team that has always had a budget around the 40s— 45M was Bryan Murray’s budget in 2003 —so there is a ceiling based on what that market can bear right now. If it grows, it grows, but as long as the Cap is 10M or more above what the Ducks are producing, the market will always ask them to overspend the budget, and it won’t be easy to do it. Not as easy as it was in the Cup year or directly after.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 13, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
that’s not to say you were suggesting we overpay, but I don’t think it’s the end of the world for us to lose great players because we can’t afford to pay great prices.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 13, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel so frustrated as a fan that the team runs on a budget… What are they looking for by not playing against the cap? How can it change?! I feel so pissed… Fill the Ponda Center right away… comon! I don’t want my favorite team to be like the Hurricannes, Islanders, Panthers…
Hometown : Montreal
First language : French
This explains why this post is filled with spelling, syntax and grammar mistakes!
I’m guessing you haven’t been a fan for very long then. Not criticizing, just saying as a guy who’s followed the team for a dozen or so years now, I remember when we were exactly that. The Ducks as a competitive team is a very new phenomenon.
I feel your frustration though. As someone who has enjoyed our recent success in comparison to our days as a franchise that was lost in the woods, I would love to see the Ducks spend a little more money. More importantly, I want them to spend wisely. The Blackhawks maxed out their cap to win, but teams can still be very competitive without paying that much. I have confidence in our prospects and our core. Right now it’s better to spend less in order to secure our future.
Again, it’s nothing new. I noted the Selanne trade above to point to that. This is a team that NEEDS the Salary Cap to help it remain competitive. The only thing that spending to the Cap will accomplish is getting the team purchased and moved to Canada. I know it’s tough to comprehend, living so close to the Canadiens, but this is part of being a Ducks fan.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 13, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
The real reason for the Selanne trade was the stupidity of the front office who went to Teemu and told him they were giving him a (I believe) $6 million/year raise because of Kariya’s contract, not because Selanne wanted more money. The Ducks shot themselves in the foot by first overpaying Kariya and then compounding it by giving Selanne a huge raise that he didn’t even ask for because they assumed he would be unhappy to be paid so much less than his best friend and linemate. Fortunately the idiot GM (Pierre Gauthier) who did that is no longer with the Ducks although he is still impacting salaries around the NHL as the GM of Montreal!
Warning: Do not post lies here
that’s actually not true. Selanne negotiated his contract. You can find the LA Times article if you want, but he wanted a raise. And he made sure to bad mouth the Ducks’ unwillingness to spend money on his way out, saying that he was glad to be going to a team (the Sharks) willing to pay the price to win. During Kariya’s negotiation, he supported Kariya by saying Kariya was the best in the game and deserved 10M, so he didn’t ask for more during his re-negotiation, but he asked for close to it. That’s how they arrived at the salary structure with 8.5M on the last year.
It’s funny how, after Kariya left, he became the bad guy and Selanne the saint, when Selanne was just as involved in getting a raise, wanting to play for a winner and making the decision to go to Colorado. Neither of them were happy with the Disney budget or management in Anaheim at the time, so neither of them were very affectionate with their bosses. I think both guys were good guys, but the idea that we have to demonize one and canonize the other is absolutely, positively ridiculous.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Lies?!
That is a little harsh considering I have followed the Ducks since their inaugural season and I don’t remember reading anything like what you attribute to Teemu in either the Times, Register, The Hockey News, or any other media outlet.
I do remember reading an article in (I believe) Sports Illustrated where they pointed to Kariya’s contract as one of the contracts that directly led to the lockout and the lost season as the owners viewed it as one of the reasons they needed a salary cap.
If you would be so kind as to post the link to the Times article(s) where you got your information I would really appreciate it!
As for Kariya being the bad guy, what do you expect after he said he had a better chance of winning the Cup with Colorado (withOUT the retired Patrick Roy) than with the Ducks who had just taken the Devils to a game 7 before losing in 2003?!
Kariya was one of many contracts that pushed for the Salary Cap, because he was able to create a base salary that made an inflated qualifying offer. What held off the Salary Cap in 1994 was extending the RFA to 31 years of age, something that directly affected Kariya and most of the game’s young stars, so the NHLPA fought back by working the RFA system. One method was what Kariya did, but also what Sakic and Fedorov did i.e. signing humongous contracts. It remains, however, that Kariya had not arrived at that goal when Selanne re-signed in ‘98. He sitll had to play the 8.5M year to create an inflated qualifying offer, so his being overpaid did not influence the Selanne negotiation. You’re mischaracterizing things BEYOND revisionist history. Those are outright lies.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
okay, one more time, damn SBN formatting
(humongous offer sheets)
Also, I mean to say that it didn’t influence the Selanne negotiation as you represent it to have. Kariya was not already making the money such that they felt they had to give Selanne, who was 31 before the 8.5M year, the same.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
HERE is the LA Times article, just to quell the nonsense before you write anymore. When FERREIRA (i.e. NOT Gauthier) negotiated Selanne’s renewal, it was well ahead of schedule and right after Kariya’s holdout and Don Baizley did note it was not a protracted negotiation. The article also notes that sealing Selanne to four years total after Kariya’s holdout was a bid to save Ferreira’s job. However, Baizley, also Kariya’s agent, went in there with a number like anyone else. Selanne was not paid against his will.
Also chief amongst your grossly inaccurate facts are that Paul Kariya was overpaid (again by Ferreira, NOT Gauthier). Kariya signed a two-year $14M contract (5.5 and 8.5), donating money from teh first year to charity. The 8.5 was used as a base for Selanne and Lindros in their negotiations, but below is where Kariya’s 5.5 stood that year. There were still players on bigger deals getting overpaid more, and there always would be because the NHLPA and the owners were at war over 31-year old RFA restrictions.
1. Joe Sakic, Colorado: $17.0
2. Chris Gratton, Philadelphia: $10.0
3. Wayne Gretzky, N.Y. Rangers: $6.5
4. Mark Messier, Vancouver: $6.0
5. Paul Kariya, Mighty Ducks: $5.5
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Nonsense?????
OK, where in the Times does it state that Teemu wanted a raise? It actually says that the Ducks went to Teemu and offered him an extension to his existing contract.
And yes, I know Ferreira was the GM when the contract extension was signed but Gauthier was the idiot who then traded Selanne to San Jose and cited his contract as the reason for the trade!
SIGH!
Kariya’s contract was ONE of the contracts cited in the article I mentioned but it was not the only one. Sakic’s contract (thanks to the offer sheet from the Rangers) was also listed but at least he had more years of experience and production to base those dollars on and Kariya did not.
by giving Selanne a huge raise that he didn’t even ask for because they assumed he would be unhappy to be paid so much less than his best friend and linemate. Fortunately the idiot GM (Pierre Gauthier) who did that is
In this composition, ‘the idiot’ can most readily be read to reference the person who gave Selanne a raise, unless you are saying ‘the idiot’ is ‘his best friend and linemate’ in which case I didn’t know Gauthier played center from time to time.
Sakic screwed the franchise that cradled him because he, like every player, felt it was ludicrous to not be a UFA until you were 31. Kariya did it to the Ducks because they had the nerve to open with a 10-year offer and not come down past five until December of the holdout. You can be pro-management all you want, but don’t invent things.
The article says it was an agent negotiation like any other. Selanne wanted to be making more than 3.5M. If he’s so pure hearted that they offered more than they could afford and he knew it, then he should have refused to take it, and when he got traded to the Sharks he should have claimed it was his fault rather than saying he was happy to be traded to a place that was willing to pay the price to win. It’s not a giant leap to assume that one of the best in the game, who ACCEPTED a raise, wanted a raise.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
also, I heard from a guy who heard from a guy that when Selanne singlehandedly defeated the Nazis, he took off Gerbils mask, and it was Paul Kariya. But before he could deliver him to the Allies, Paul Kariya put an evil hex on him so he would be willing, against his lionhearted purity, to play with him for a Cup in Colorado. Because Kariya is evil and wanted to perform experiments on Colorado wildlife. So evil. Selanne could slay him in his sleep, but they’re linked like the Joker and Batman, Lex Luthor and Superman, Doctor Doom and Mr. Fantastic.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
REALLY?!
Obviously you are entitled to you opinion, but it would carry some weight if you actually had the “facts” to back it up. Nothing in the Times article backs up what you said about Selanne and I have never read anything in any hockey publication that even begins to lend credence to your post.
So we can agree to disagree and for the record I would welcome Kariya back right now if that would help the team and help convince Teemu that he still has more to contribute to another run at another Stanley Cup.
Nothing backs up your assertion that he was paid against his will. Don Baizley never says the Ducks HANDED them money. He showed up for the negotiation they scheduled. I’m not saying Selanne was money hungry, but that article COMPLETELY REFUTES your claim that Selanne was paid agaiinst his will. It was a negotiation like any other, nothing special.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, I meant that warning. If you post something as ridiculous as Selanne was paid against his will, you’ll get a formal SBN warning on the board. It’s bad enough when Albert K does it. I don’t want to see substantive commenters posting things other people might believe, and I don’t want to spend time hunting down articles.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Huh? Where did I say that Selanne was “paid against his will”?!
All I said was " the stupidity of the front office who went to Teemu and told him they were giving him a (I believe) $6 million/year raise".
Yes, there was some “negotiation” (“no muss, no fuss”, according to his agent), but the Ducks initiated the contract talks (according to the Times article) and Teemu still had 2 years on his current contract when they did this so he wasn’t the one demanding or even asking for an extension or a raise.
The Ducks offered him more money and he took it.
No big surprise there, right?
If THAT’S your source for saying the Ducks offered him TOO much money, then you’re not lying as much as you’re reading what you want to read into it.
If you look at the contract structure, Selanne got 8.5 on the last year of contract, which is also the first year of his unrestricted free agency. There’s no reason to believe the Ducks didn’t come in there and give him a fair price for his last year as an RFA and his first year as a UFA. You wanting to believe that Selanne was overpaid at their insistence is reading into their offer and forgetting that Selanne could have hit the open market for much more money that last year, to the point that the Ducks even put him on the open market for the last year.
It was a negotiation like any other, stop acting like the Ducks opened with a 10M offer and Selanne asked for less. For all we know, Don Baizley came in and said, 8 and 8.5, and the Ducks immediately said yes. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other. It was a negotiation like any other.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
and please don’t challenge my mastery of the facts with your quotes when you can’t even remember who re-signed Selanne. It’s really insulting for someone to act like they have a superior memory of the incident when they can’t even remember which GM wrote the contract.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
haha, I know we all have to be Ducks fans and some of us can side with players and some can sign with ownership, but can’t we all agree that Disney was bad? That when Selanne said he was happy to be traded to a place that was willing to pay the price to win and Kariya said he wanted to play for a winner, and they BOTH decided to go to Colorado instead of coming back to Anaheim that the way Disney ran its ship was in play? It’s just ridiculous that people have to make up stories for one guy to be a saint and one guy to be a sinner. This one, Selanne being forced to cash checks, takes the cake for me, though.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know, that original mighty ducks logo was hella gangster. I appreciate Disney for that, and for having the marketing gall to turn a successful movie into a professional sports franchise…after that, I got nothing.
I agree and that is why I had it put into the concrete in my backyard!
And Arthur – I never said Selanne was a saint or that he was forced to cash checks, only that the Ducks went to him and his agent to offer him a big raise and contract extension. Management initiated the talks and apparently there was very little disagreement on the numbers since it was wrapped up very quickly.
Just wondering though, do I still get the free personal attack that you owe me or do we call it even now? ;)
raise because of Kariya’s contract, not because Selanne wanted more money.
Selanne got a raise because a raise is what it took to re-sign Selanne, like most any professional hockey player. For you to interpret that Selanne had this raise foisted upon him, and then to repeat it as though it were cardinal fact is lying. That’s not a personal attack. You have no proof, other than some misplaced intuition that Selanne did not, in fact, want 8 and 8.5 million on the next contract. His agent attended that negotiation like any other negotiation; there’s no reason to believe he didn’t come in asking for the market price on his last year of RFA, which for Selanne was around 8 million.
I won’t tolerate lying, especially if someone reads it and thinks you know what you’re talking about. It’s the same as Albert K coming here and saying that we traded Kunitz because he wanted a raise, when in Kunitz was traded after getting a new contract.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 15, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Since his agent characterized the negotiations as “no muss, no fuss” my intuition tells me that both sides agreed on the dollar amounts with little or no real negotiating. And since the Ducks offered the extension to Selanne rather than Teemu asking for it, it seems to me that the Ducks probably came up with the dollar amounts and no, I don’t think that they offered him more and then he asked for less!
And as for personal attacks, I’m referring to your post back in March on another thread about Sbisa so please let me know if I still get a free one. Thank you:
If he doesn’t join the Ducks at the end of the WHL season, here‘s a good article on where he might end up. He will NOT be relegated to the ECHL cheese sandwich (or whatever they serve those poor bastards on gameday) like so many of our other prospects. If the Ducks don’t want to start him, there are plenty of teams that do.
I should say one more time, Kimo31, sorry about that. I didn’t even check to see if you were a ducks fan. I just saw someone getting in between a discussion with me and yankeeken and assumed it was a Blackhawks fan who wanted me to look at another screenshot. I really shouldn’t be alienating fans right after they join. I owe you one if you stick around. One free personal attack on me.
Anaheim Calling
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Mar 18, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s not intuition, that’s believing what you want to believe. Repeating it is LYING and spreading misinformation. Yes, they wanted to discuss his contract early, but the numbers could just as easily have been suggested by Baizley. Or Baizley could have said, one year 7M to take Selanne into unrestricted free agency, and they offered more to get that extra year of of UFA status reserved. Baizley could even have come in and said 8M, 8M with a 4M signing bonus, and they had to talk them down. The truth is YOU DON’T KNOW, and saying SELANNE DIDN’T EVEN WANT A RAISE is ridiculous. This was a negotiation like any other. The fact that they wanted to discuss things early doesn’t take away the fact that an agent was involved and was looking out for Selanne’s best interest, AND that the Ducks knew that locking Selanne in at 8.5 three years early might be a competitive market price for his first UFA year, WHICH IT WAS.
As to the personal attack, I haven’t accused you of issuing one, though you’re free to it. As far as I"m concerned, using the word “facts” in quotes was pretty low when you couldn’t even remember which GM negotiated Selanne’s renewal, but if it makes you feel better to call me a name as well, feel free.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 15, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
And by the way, my intuition tells me that when Selanne said this
"I’m excited to go to a team that really wants to pay the price to be a winner. "when he was traded it was because he wanted the raise he got to earn the 8.5M he was earning, and he thought that a real team, a playoff team would be willing to pay it. Selanne wanted to be paid a competitive wage just like any other professional.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 15, 2010 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Nope, I didn’t leave!
It just took me a while to look up “pay the price” and while Arthur is applying the literal definition, IMO Teemu meant the figurative definition when he said “pay the price to be a winner”. IMO (don’t want to be accused of lying) Teemu was referring to the Sharks willingness to do what it took to build a contending team both on and off the ice.
An interesting footnote to all of this is that after his contract was up in 2002 and he was an UFA Teemu actually took a $3 million pay cut to sign with the Sharks for another season. I guess not all athletes are all about the money.
Come back Teemu and if you bring Paul with you I’m sure most Duck fans won’t hold that against you!
OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH. There’s a language barrier, here? I didn’t know that. Well, trust me on this, what Teemu meant is ‘pay the price’ as in the literal price. The Ducks have been a budget team since their inaugural season, and actually, as they hired Jack Ferreira (who worked with the Sharks in their inaugural season to keep finances down), they had wanted to stay that way. Teemu and anyone who took a shot at the Ducks for being cheap were totally in the right. The Ducks were cheap. The Ducks ARE cheap. I’m sorry if you had trouble translating any of that.
Also, Teemu DID NOT take a paycut. As I stated above, the Ducks were paying 3M of his salary with the Sharks. So, when he got 6.5M (with bonuses), the Sharks were actually giving him a 1.5M increase over what they were paying him. I was living in the Bay Area at the time, and there was definitely a backlash about that when Selanne had trouble in the playoffs. The fans, at least, did feel they had given him a raise; they didn’t think they were getting Selanne at a bargain.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 16, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, you’re reading, “the price on and off the ice” actually doesn’t make sense. Anaheim’s only problem was off the ice. For Selanne to say they weren’t willing to “pay the price to be a winner” on the ice would be saying that his teammates were soft or bad people. So, I’m actually offended that you’re so determined to depict Selanne as wanting to play hockey for free that you are suggesting he bad mouthed his teammates when he got traded. That’s the worse kind of lie, because you’re making him sound like an EVEN WORSE person just to depict him as what is a good person in your eyes. Shame on anyone who thinks Selanne was calling his teammates incompetent when he said his former team wasn’t willing to pay the price.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 16, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Uh, where did I say that Selanne wanted to “play hockey for free”?! As for taking a pay cut, according to the AP report in sports illustrated he did:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/news/2002/07/05/selanne_sharks_ap/
And Dean Lombardi who was GM of San Jose is quoted saying, “I don’t think there’s any question this player left a lot of money on the table. This is clearly a case where money wasn’t important. That really restores my faith in a lot of things when I see a player do what he did.”
It’s FUNCTIONALLY a paycut, but the Sharks never paid him a full 8.5m, so he techinically got a pay raise from this team, whose willingness to “pay the price to be a winner” he was so proud of
look, there’s clearly a language barrier here and I have no interest in simplifying my language. That’s not am insult to you; I speak four other languages and routinely reach the point where i can’t discuss complex ideas with someone. Your beliefs about Selanne are ridiculous enough to where I’m not truly worried anyone will believe you.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 16, 2010 6:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Its a quote from a movie. Thunderdome
by Newport Rebel on Jul 16, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Note: I tweaked things a little so I could submit it to SBN LA. Not sure if they’re expecting things from us.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 13, 2010 3:56 PM PDT reply actions
the Ducks will have one more offseason before Getzlaf becomes a UFA
Isn’t Getzlaf signed until 2013?
There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.
yeah, woops. I was looking at a cap chart and read the first column as this offseason not next offseason. correcting now.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 13, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, thought I was out of my mind for a second
There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.
yeah, when I wrote the title, I thought he took us straight into the next CBA, then I got to the end of the story, read the chart and was like woops.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 13, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Great players
My point was that great players are tough to see leave, I am not saying we should break the bank and try to snag a Kovy sized contract (which is ridiculous) but when great players are there for the taking and we NEED them, I think it is worth it to try and fit them in.
Murray is taking a lot of heat, that he may end up not deserving…jury is still out.
if the Cap doesn’t drop on the next CBA, we’ll probably have to choose that ONE player to overpay, and it will probably be Getzlaf. Then we’ll say goodbye to Hiller, Perry, who knows who else. I think we’re guaranteed to have a player as long as he’s an RFA and not a minute more. That’s why I don’t see the Ducks playing Cam Fowler this year. Cam will probably be looking for the door as sure as Bobby is right now. As long as the CBA RFA rules stay the same, the Ducks can have Cam until he’s 27 if they wait a couple of years.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 14, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
What affects profitability?
Missing the playoffs! Even if the Ducks are a budget team, failure to pay fair market value for players ensures that they do not lure any game-changers here. And that’s a vicious cycle of hoping to get all your RFAs to enter their prime at exactly the right time.
The assertion that Getzlaf’s contract is low for the cap in which it was signed debatable. Signing a contract with a cap hit of 5.325M in November means the it was more than 10% of that year’s cap. Sure, it didn’t kick in until the next year, but no one knew what next year’s cap number was going to be at that time. So when Perry signed for the same cap hit in July the cap was already know. And thus the team committed more than 9% of that year’s cap to him.
Is Bobby Ryan worth 9% of next year’s cap hit? For a team that needs to make the playoffs for profitabilities sake, I’d think so. What that means is his salary would be higher than Getzlaf and Perry’s. But that’s called inflation.
A previous post touched on the marketability of players. That goes into the profitability equation as well. And at this point, Getzlaf and Ryan are the most marketable. Perry is the odd-man out. If forced to choose two of the RPG line, which do you keep?
There are 10 types of people in the world - those that understand binary, and those that don't.
Cap teams had larger contracts in play when Getzlaf signed, so there are most definitely arguments to be made about what qualifies as low, but that’s mostly tied to player value, which is much more difficult to pin down.
As far as missing the playoffs, the Ducks made the Stanley Cup Finals before coming up with the 45M budget number for the season before the Lockout. There is such a thing as what the market will bear. They made more money after the Lockout and the year they won the Cup, but California was hit hard by the recession, and if they’re back to 46M to be profitable again, I doubt they can be convinced to spend 13M past their desired profitability mark on the off-chance that they can reclaim the numbers of before, that’s how you end up selling a team and moving it to Canada.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 15, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
oh, and as the 46M number is for last year’s budget, so that would be a year after they made the playoffs, going two rounds and 13 games, and they were back to just one million more than the budget they had after making the Stanley Cup Finals six years before. So, yeah. It’s nice to wax poetic about how flawed it is to be a budget team, but the financials aren’t pretty.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions
You end up selling a team and moving it to Canada when you stop putting a winning product out there. I’m not sure if the 45M is supposed to indicate that the team was a budget team, or not. At the time, that was higher than the first cap number. Doesn’t that make the Ducks a cap team? And when they won the Cup, they most definitely were a cap team.
There are places of the country hit harder by the recession than CA that are producing cap teams – Pittsburgh and Detriot, for example. They are also icing a winning product. And that was my main point – invest in what gives you a winning product .
You are right that pinning down player value is tough. And if we accept that the Ducks have been/are/always will be a budget team, then the numbers for Getzlaf and Perry become very relevent. But they need to be considered against the cap in which they were created.
There are 10 types of people in the world - those that understand binary, and those that don't.
Pittsburgh and Detroit have better TV deals and pull in better national support. As our writer Robby noted, the Ducks are one of many teams that the NHL has marked as an underachiever in merchandising sales, so Anaheim is required to make a larger order of fringe merchandising if they are going to participate. That is why you see a Pittsburgh and Toronto bikini and not an Anaheim one in the NHL store. Therefore, those teams can always make money on top of what they pull at the gate, and even in their bankruptcy years when they were barely afloat, that support sustained them. I doubt the Ducks have a cushion that size.
There were teams outspending the Ducks in 2003, and Anaheim’s number was not the lowest by any means, but after a Cup, they can still sink to a number well below what the current cap teams are capable of, and with 13 playoff games, no less. Granted, they mishandled their playoff ticket sales the season before last, but even the KIngs don’t get their full schedule on TV, so the market itself doesn’t currently have the potential to create revenue opportunities that boom other teams. If NBC and the NHL store start supporting the Ducks and the Ducks are still talking about being a budget team, then something is rotten in Garden Grove, but as long as there isn’t a single nationally televised Ducks game (last season) and the team’s merchandise is blacklisted by the NHL, they have no reason to operate at a loss and put themsleves out there.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 15, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
CBA Extended
FYI. According to the Canadian Press the NHLPA voted to extend the current CBA through the 2011-2012 season back on June 22nd so teams can use the performance bonus cushion next season.

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