Last Line Of Defense
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 12:16 PM PDT
in Armchair GM
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PrintARTHUR:
If you're a Ducks fan hoping to see the team ice a functional blueline next year, then you are one of two things right now: a) anxious because Bob Murray hasn't made 'his move' yet and you fear all the cute puppies are being adopted behind the scenes or b) terrified that Bob Murray HAS made 'his move' and thus contemplating the disaster that is the Visnovsky, Lydman, Wisniewski plus-Boyntons Era. The latter is certainly possible, by the way. For those hoping we would 'replace' Niedermayer using Niedermayer's money, it's worth noting that Visnovsky still makes 6M on his 5.6M cap hit this year, and if Murph signs Wisniewski to a 4M deal and picks up a Boynton, he's officially spending as much on defense as he did last year.
But assuming the other shoe has yet to drop, and that that shoe is a formidable defenseman 6'2" or taller, trade seems like the most viable option, especially for Murray, who has proven with the Ducks that he refuses to write overpaid contracts himself but is perfectly willing to acquire them by trade. And by trade, Murph could acquire defensemen like Sheldon Souray, Kevin Bieksa and Tomas Kaberle. Who knows who else enters the conversation if Bobby Ryan is involved? I realize that Murray has sycophantically guaranteed the fanbase that he won't trade the youngster, but the GM is also soundly winning the press war, to the point that one rejected 4 yr./21.2M offer would probably make most Ducks fans okay with waving goodbye to their once-prized pick.
For today, though, I'll go in another direction and say, what if we became players in the RFA market? As I said above, Murray doesn't like to overpay, and as we don't have our third-rounder, we would be limited to 3M/year offers to players like Nicklas Grossman. That's not a bad use of a second-round pick in my opinion, but the more attractive option is of course to re-acquire our third-round pick from Toronto and go after players like Marc Staal.
Would we have to overpay to acquire a guy who can't see eye to eye with the Rangers? Definitely, but that's a solid (perhaps job-saving) acquisition for a GM who's turned the Ducks into a bubble team in the standings, not to mention what it would do to round out a Top 4 whose average height is currently below 6-foot.
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Anxious and Terrified - Check
Count me as being in both categories. I don’t know which of the D UFA or RFA players are the right fit, but a youth movement may not be any worse than our current lineup (Wiz included), at least we can excuse it as rebuilding?
Kaberle, Bieksa, Mitchell (if he isn’t dizzy) Sutton even…we should pair one of these at least to get it done with another cheaper vet…..just hope it isn’t on August 30th
I don’t think Grossman would be a good fit, he had 0 goals last year, along with Brookbank, Mikkelson, and Festerling. We need someone with a bit of offensive flare, bottom line we need more goals from our blueline, and Grossman won’t deliver.
Uh, I would argue the Ducks have too much offensive flare right now. If we re-sign Wisniewski, that’s two guys under 6 feet tall for the sake of offensive flare. For 3M per year, a guy with some height who’s played top pair minutes in the west seems fine by me. Better than putting another Boynton there.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
In kvd123’s defense, I’m pretty sure that’s what Murray’s thinking on every defenseman acquisition. It’s why we have no shutdown presence right now.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
plus, find me a guy who’s played top pair minutes in the west with offensive flare and size that comes in at 3M/year? The whole point of spending what Murray’s willing to pay plus the pick is making that sacrifice.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Well Wiz hasn’t even signed yet, and having only 2 defensemen on your roster that can score isn’t good enough in this league, and Wiz still only averages 3 goals a year with a rep for getting injured. What happens if either Wiz or Lubo goes down? we are left with big trouble.
The problem with that thinking is there are only so many slots. Murray’s theory for last year’s team was to copy what had been successful for the Red Wings and Penguins with three scoring lines and a penchant for a Rafalski or a Gonchar. Truth is, both of those teams had major shutdown presences and great, not good, two way forwards.
If you continue to devalue defensive defenseman, you end up with a situation like we had last year, where Murray estimated Beauchemin, for lack of significant offensive flare, was a 2.99M max, but proceeded to spend that money on Wisniewski and Boynton’s offensive upside. Needless to say, the team could have really used Beauchemin at 3.8M instead of both of those players. Pronger was a shot from the blueline, Huskins was a puck carrier, but our only consistent offensive scoring presence post-lockout was Niedermayer. The idea that the world is over because we’re putting our trust in Visnovsky is a little strange, especially after what we saw on the ice last season.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d also say that the diminished defensive presence of a smaller defenseman like Visnovsky and the severely diminished defensive presence of Wisniewski contribute to my opinion that there is too much offensive flair. There are just not enough people contributing to shutting down the opposition right now. You’ve got to balance that scale.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok Arthur I am a Wiz “hater” just as much as Daniel but here is an idea that I’d like to get your opinion on. Everyone here wanted some kick ass D man to come in and take up Scotty’s spot and be the hero of the day. Management has not yet, nor do I think they will, bring in that type of player yet. So we have to work with what we have got. Do you think that we could make a good not great top 4 with Lubo Lydman and Wiz and one good/ great stay at home d man. I do think that after all the mistakes Wiz made last year that some of it was on the pairings. Look I love Scotty but like electricity two positives or two negatives don’t go together. Both Wiz and Scotty are offensive d men and need a stay at home guy to cover up for them at times. I know that Scotty did not fuck up nearly as often as Wiz but dude its Scotty. He is one of the greats. So back to the question. Can Wiz have a good year and can we “rehab” him so to speak if we can find him a good partner that can allow Wiz to take the risks that he inherently does? Forget about the money that he is asking cause I agree he is not worth at this time what he is asking. His stock is down right now. No use in paying full price for a stock that is down.
by Newport Rebel on Jul 22, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Wiz could really shine as a third pairing guy, power play unit guy, like a small bench point guard in the NBA. But matching him up against another team’s Top 6 every night is tough. And he’s going to arbitration, so you have to imagine a situation where we’re paying him almost 4M when we already have an infinitely better power play shot and power play quarterback in Lubo. I’m sure there’s a better player in Wiz, and maybe if he wasn’t injured so often or had a clearly defined role on a team, one that played to his strengths, he could find it, but he hasn’t found it yet, so I can’t give him credit for being better than he has been.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think I’d mind seeing Stall come to the Ducks, and honestly I am REALLY REALLY hoping that he pulls the trigger for something that gives us even the slightest physical presence on the blue line. With all the forwards he’s been racking up, there must be some diabolical plan in bobs mind… I don’t think he’s that stupid… or maybe…well. We’ll see.
Assuming Teemu returns, B-Ry signs, and Lupul is solid before the season startsour forward lines are stacked pretty well.
B-Ry, – Getz – Perry
Selanne – Koivu – Lupul
(im guessing lupul and b-ry are interchangeable since Randy can never stick to a firm line combo)
With the young forwards we have competing for a spot (big sexi, boninno, etc…), and Jason Blake, something has got to be done, and sadly I don’t think anyone will want to take on Blake for the age/money unless its a pretty sweet deal.
I really hope he’s got some tricks up his sleeve.
I can’t imagine us being in the latter position you described.
Lupul??
Lupul is not even close to playing NHL hockey, when is the team gonna notice he is way behind? He needs to get on the stick, or be sent to Syracuse…
Someone needs to force him into a major tuneup…maybe a behind the scenes expose on his surgery and infection issues, a human interest comeback/struggle story….?
Hell, at least he’s started skating this summer, and when he WAS hurt he put up 10 goals and was out there playing tough. personally, I liked what I saw from someone who was playing injured. Of course it will be a while for his strength and conditioning to be there (hopefully no beer gut has to be burnt off) but I think he’s a pretty damn good forward.
You must be talking to him personally to know he’s so far behind, because I don’t know him all that well to cut ties on what has always been a good performer for the ducks.
Do you have anything to lead us to believe he was be ready maybe 15 games into the season or something I haven’t picked up on? I’m not sure how to judge someone’s recovery time, I’m no doctor.
this is how sad our team has become debating whether to add souray and willie mitchell… GUYS THIS IS RIDICOLOUS TO WIN IN THIS LEAGUE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FRICKIN D AND RITE NOW OUR ONLY ELITE DMAN IS LUBO WHO IS SO SMALL MY GRANDMA CAN KNOCK HIM OUT…. we are so screwed even if we get sutton or bieska
this isn’t a rant
it boggles the mind that you take issue with how I characterize you.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Lubo is our offensive-defenseman, and I think he has as much offensive upside as Scotty had, just in a different way…we all can agree we need a stay at home D-man, one who can clear the screener from the crease AND play big minutes, that will cost us big $. Hopefully after waiting for the other teams to spend their dough, we can steal a few to lower their cap hit.
I think Bieksa would be a good fit, he has both the offensive upside and the physicality to be a shut down guy, but just what would we have to give up?
Does anyone know how far Clark is from getting his legs into the NHL… He’s got a physical presence and some size on him, but I don’t know all that much otherwise other than a few youtube videos…. The longer this goes on the more I wonder if there is a youth movement coming on the D line, Clark Fowler Sbisa…. I hope that’s not what happens, as they have been pretty good with developing prospects before joining the big leagues.
In a couple years, young guys like Fowler, Gardiner, can join guys like Clark and Sbisa for a really impressive corps. Tough to make that happen next year, but this is a team with enough blueline prospects to short-sign veterans. Taking on Souray’s contract, for example, would definitely get us to the point where we could put one of our boys in his place in the Top 4 after it expired.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
what about newton? Our D is full to the point where we can’t fit all of our prospects on the same team which means we will have to trade a few of them… look here’s our future:
Sbisa-Fowler
Clark-Gardiner
DeGray-Vatanen
Or you could argue for someone else to take the 3rd pairings but the point is we can’t fit Newton, Schultz, and all the rest into the team….. I personally would trade Gardiner for something good right now because his development process is so slow I’m starting to think he may become a bust after watching the World Juniors where he was okay with a good plus/minus rating, but at times disappeared.
Oh and
we have an extensive player page for Clark with links to the interviews I did with him last year. He looked okay with Manitoba, but I think the Ducks will give him most of this season in the AHL unless he’s stunning in training camp. We have some other AHL defensemen who might get a look ahead of him just because they’re on the end of their contracts this year.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 22, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
hmmm...
I was pondering on the fact that since we don’t have a bruiser on the line he could potentially fill the spot if bob is caught waiting the entire offseason, which looks to be the case on the D line, unless of course we’re talking about our forwards. In that case he’s done a grrrrrrrrrreat job over stocking those.
Sigh. It’s really been a difficult offseason in terms of our defensive ‘improvements’ (or lack thereof). Personally, I just want to stop thinking about all this until Murray makes it known by either making a move for a top 4 guy (either by UFA, RFA, or trade) or making a statement implying that he’s satisfied with the blueline he has ‘assembled’.
I really want to reserve judgement until the picture is painted, but I think it might be difficult to do that with so many missed opportunities to improve the team’s blueline. Still playing the ‘wait and see’ game, I suppose.
There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.
Hey this article got linked to NHL.com
sweet
There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.
Sami Salo is broken...
So Bieska isn’t going anywhere. Blake to Edmonton for Souray seems to solve all of our problems except for having a defenseman who can actually play defense. That being said, I still would love it. A couple of years of Souray and then bring back Aaron Ward. Problems (almost) solved!
"Abtholoootleee"
Wasn’t Souray on waivers not to long ago?
by Newport Rebel on Jul 23, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he cleared.
Not 100% sure on that.
"Abtholoootleee"
by Floyd Gondoli on Jul 23, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if he cleared then there you go. If we didn’t want him on waivers what makes you think we would trade for him now?
by Newport Rebel on Jul 24, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
At this point I think we are left in a tough spot. We now have to trade for a D man and one that will cost us.
by Newport Rebel on Jul 24, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
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