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Are You Ready To Overpay?

ARTHUR:
An interesting retweet from Eric Stephens today:

Ducks still want Bieksa but the price will be hefty, Salo's injury helped the Canucks in some ways...less than a minute ago via web

NHLSourcesSay is the "insider" for the site HendricksHockey.net and the same Twitter account that posted a rumor about Selanne and the Ducks talking about a two-year deal, a rumor for which Stephens himself procured a denial from management.

The idea isn't completely illogical. With Mason Raymond now on the books, and Sami Salo, perhaps, off the books to open the season, the Canucks aren't under the gun to clear cap space. And there have been no shortage of rumored suitors for Bieksa, though Anaheim was rumored to have serious interest. So, if Bob Murray is determined to acqurie Kevin Bieksa, he will probably have to overpay for the 29 year-old and the remaining one year at 3.5M on his contract.

Star-divide

Of course, it's easy to assume that Murray is determined to pick up Bieksa. There has been an air of certainty whenever the Ducks have dealt with former Canucks after the Lockout. Whether it's Burke's experience up front, Murph's experience in the scouting department or Randy Carlyle's experience in Manitoba, a former Canuck usually gets the benefit of the doubt, either with the contract pen or the roster sheet pencil. Drafted as a Canuck in 2001, and having played for Carlyle in 04-05, Bieksa is the kind of Canuck that Murray is likely to be "sure" about, much more than Brendan Morrison, Todd Bertuzzi, Nathan McIver, Mike Brown or Brad May. So why wouldn't he overpay?

However, assuming he does overpay, how bad would it be? Could he ruin the group the Ducks iced at Conditioning Camp last month? Hard to say. Murph once paid Chris Kunitz and Eric Tangradi to get a full contract of Ryan Whitney's services. Could we lose another key McNab signing, like Sexton? Could we lose another generally recognized top prospect?

It's possible, and it brings me back to the thinly veiled point of my post last week: the hope that Bob Murray won't trade. I don't actually believe Murray would participate in an RFA offer sheet (I mean, the guy was willing to let REAL free agency pass him by, why would he play heads-up, all-in free agency), but I suppose that I hope that it happens to avoid moments like this, where Murph is, as far as I'm concerned, in a position to give away his successor's assets. I say, hands off; get fired quietly without dragging down the cupboard with you.

It's tempting. I'll give him that. It's tempting to sell the farm and make the most of the last will and testament of Teemu Selanne's career, not to mention the final years of Getzlaf's and Perry's contracts. And assuming Murph's vision for this team isn't as ludicrous as the aped Red Wings/Penguins roster he hoped to ice last year, it's maybe possible to do at a smart and sensible price. But I don't know if I trust Murph to do it, not when so much of his time in the big chair has involved the contract-equivalent of Coach Carlyle's line shuffling. He hoped Whitney could play the top shot on the power play and hoped that Wisniewski could deliver a Top 4 style of play when neither player had ever done either in their careers to that point. And their inability to do that certainly made them worth less than a Pahlsson (even at a rental), a Tangradi and a Kunitz.

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Nice article. Iv’e said it all along that Sexton will most likely be involved.

by JD54 on Jul 26, 2010 10:41 PM PDT reply actions  

i think only the ducks think highly of sexton to be honest

i do so us overpaying for someone here..i think he aimed high (volchenkov perhaps?) and missed out and then thought he might get a plan B at a reasonable price…perhaps he didnt anticipate the premium on D men this offseason?…is he that clueless?…im optomistic when I see they didnt panic and overpay for the whiz yet meaning they wont throw money to just anyone for the sake of “we did somthing”…i think

with whiz and whitney he took a gamble and lost….living with a pens fan for a year he had told me how critical whitney was to there playoff runs etc….on paper he seemed to be an up and comer…cant say much about the whiz cuz i didnt even know he existed before he came to the ducks

but he also got rid of jiggys contract…got koivu to sign and then re-sign…not apologizing for the guy just saying u could see what he was trying to do the guys just didnt pan out

i dunno i think what has done us in has been not getting any D guys from the minors making any impact and/or not being given the chance to contribute…whos fault is that?…the coach? the GM….scouting for not getting any quailty?..I dunno I think thats where our problem lies my friends…we need someone to come from the orginzation like a mitera or whomever and of course sbisa…..even if it takes some growing pains for a year…

which leads me to agreeing with you and hoping he doesnt do shit

"People act funny around strange men with sticks."
-John Marston-

by SPADE-IN-VICTORHELL on Jul 27, 2010 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

You’re not giving Burke and the Flames’ interest in Toskala the assist on Jiggy? And you’re not giving Teemu the assist on Koivu? I’m even inclined to give Doug Wilson the assist on the Huskins deal as he and Murph played in a Blackhawks pairing together for a decade, but I also don’t think that was the greatest trade as he was just trying to get back prospects to make up for the fact that he gave away Tangradi and O’Dell.

I don’t think he ever planned to go for Volchenkov, because as he said, he planned not to make a move on July 1st. It wasn’t until the second and third tier defensemen started to get gobbled up that he said he saw “where the numbers were going” and made a move. His plan was probably always to go after a July 2nd or later defensemen, probably someone that not too many people wanted and probably at a discount, maybe a Boynton 2.0.

The problem with our D in the minors is that we created a hole in the defense by trade. We got rid of a first rounder in Smid and a fully developed player in O’Brien, and the rest of the cupboard wasn’t in a position to step up. Then, when we got Sbisa back, the coaching staff and front office decided a guy who had already played 40 games in the NHL couldn’t handle the rigors of a bum season, or maybe they just couldn’t stomach losing a year of his RFA eligibility to a bum season. End of the day, the front office was willing to trade away McDonald to keep Pronger/Niedermayer/Schneider together and piecemeal together the rest of the defensive corps. There has always been a preference for veterans in the front office.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 27, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I commented on that youtube video a while ago. :)

by Mudhippy on Jul 26, 2010 10:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Should have played the free agency game. Now he’s gotta move good pieces to get good pieces.

There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.

by Natesaduck on Jul 27, 2010 12:05 AM PDT reply actions  

RC is the problem when it comes to possible good trades, maybe they should talk, then RC won’t try to make the next Whitney into something he is not….Whitney screwed up a lot mostly TO’s , but he was made to play in a way he lacked the skill set for, Wiz too.

by Buick22 on Jul 27, 2010 9:10 AM PDT reply actions  

well, they needed a top shot on the power play. And after trying to make it Getzlaf, it was clear that it couldn’t be the big man. Both Wiz and Whitney fired into blocks from that position and created goals, so it became a giant hole because no one on the roster could do it. As for Wiz, I don’t blame Carlyle for trying to put the 2.75M guy in the Top 4. HIs time in the bottom pair with Boynton was as conspicuous as it was unsuccessful.

Murray fell on the grenade for the Whitney trade, and I think he’s falling on it on the Wiz trade. As well he should, as he made the call on what he thought those players could do, saying goodbye to Beauchemin and Pronger after their acquisition.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 27, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

I thought Whitney had the hardest shot on the team? why didn’t he ever shoot!? what a waste of his size and ability

by Albert K on Jul 27, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

He NEVER played top shot in Pittsburgh. He always shot or passed from along the boards. That’s where he was successful, and that’s where he produced points. It was both Murray and Carlyle’s hopes that he would start shooting more from the point. Not sure if that hope factored into his trade value or if Murray just blatantly overpaid, but they made no secret of the fact that they wanted him to be something else, when he’d been very successful in his career to that point being what he is.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 27, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

so its all murray and randy’s fault…. haha our management does suck balls!

by Albert K on Jul 27, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not a professional hockey coach or GM, but I generally think it’s a bad idea to acquire a guy to be something he’s not, especially when you’re overpaying and not “buying low” on him.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 27, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

this is random but i’m just curious on when Vatanen is coming to North America? And why have you not put Newton as one of our top prospects….

by Albert K on Jul 27, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

My top prospects list is updated twice a year: mid season and after training camp. Jake Newton was an amateur player with Northeastern during my last update.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 27, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whitney always had a hard shot, it just never hit the target…Now anytime we see a point player wind up huge and hit the boards three feet wide, we call it a Whitney…glass too…he was an equal opportunity bad aim…

by Buick22 on Jul 27, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Missing the net isn’t always bad with a booming shot, sometimes that’s the point, especially if you have good net front players. It’s missing the pads in front of you that’s key and that’s something Whitney and Wisniewski have failed spectacularly at, especially with skaters (like Patrick Marleau) who are assigned to the PK to create a scoring threat.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 27, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Whitney would have panned out if he hadn’t messed up both his feet, he lost his speed because of those injuries and wasn’t the same player for a while. Once he went to Edmonton he started playing the hockey that he was drafted 5th overall for. But still I’m not complaining, we got Lubo out of it and he’s done nothing but score for us.

by kvd123 on Jul 27, 2010 10:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Whitney was finally healing from that injury when we got him, and that doesn’t seem to have factored into the price. It also didn’t seem to factor into the problems with his play: we expected him not to funnel the puck to the middle, to clear the crease and to be a key top shot on the power play and at even strength. He hadn’t done any of those things before, and he was principally responsible for all of them, especially on the Whit/Wiz pairing.

Lubo is a good pickup, but he’s one we got after our full season with Whitney didn’t work out and the Oilers failed in their season as well, so while you can say the price for Lubo was Kunitz, Tangradi and a sixth round pick, perhaps even when we don’t have to pick up the entire front end of his frontloaded contract, we still lost that season. It was a trade designed to fix a pretty blatant mistake, and if we need to wait a losing season to eventually be on the positive end of every bad trade, I’d say that’s poor management.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 27, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

So Lupul pay off in 2010-11…it has been a year….

by Buick22 on Jul 27, 2010 11:27 AM PDT reply actions  

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