Get Carter
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 10:51 AM PDT
in Arthur
91 comments
UPDATE: DISCLAIMER: What you are about to read is not a serious trade proposal. It's a thought experiment wherein the Ducks could obtain an uneven deal for Bobby Ryan from a team that needs him, in this case the Flyers. Again, as it is exploring the sort of uneven deal that's possible, the deal suggested is UNEVEN. It's meant to encourage Ducks fans to consider uneven deals with teams that are overvaluing Ryan, deals beyond the Kaberle deal or offer sheet compensation, which are commonly discussed.
ARTHUR:
Call this your thought experiment for the weekend, but what can we get for an unsigned Bobby Ryan?
There was an interesting suggestion by reader Gizmoitus the other day that the Ducks and Flyers undertake a deal whose moving parts were Bobby Ryan and Jeff Carter. The Flyers have been rumored to be shopping their 2003 11th overall pick, both to clear cap space and shore up holes in net and wing. Meanwhile, the Ducks have had trouble seeing eye to eye with their young forward, and sending him home to Philadelphia-- and a Cap economy that can pay him at least what Carter was making --might be the answer.
Now, in a practical sense, there are many problems with a straight-up deal. Carter actually makes 500K more than his 5M cap hit on what is the last year of his contract next season. He will be an RFA at the end of that, but after making that Philly money, the Ducks might end up right back where they were with Ryan i.e. convincing a guy to live in a Getzlaf economy. For the Flyers, they're trying to move Gagne, but if they take anything in return, they'll still be in a position where they have to clear some cap space. And with Bobby unsigned, there's no guarantee they would accomplish that.
So, to continue this thought experiment, I'm going to suggest adding Matt Carle. That would seem to unbalance the scales in the Ducks favor, but they're also taking on a lot more salary than they can manage. And in that sense, the trade passed the laugh test for me. The Flyers just signed Meszaros and a low-cost option in O'Donnell, and clearing 8.5M minus Bobby's pending salary could go a long way to opening up some moves (even if only deadline moves) for a team that made the Finals (even if they only made the playoffs on the last play of the season). So while they'll definitely be losing something, it won't be any of the pieces they desperately needed and they'll have the option of adding something.
I've learned something from this brain teaser: Bobby is overvalued right now. That's not to say that he isn't worth a Carter and a Carle-- he may or may not be --but just generally to note that he's overvalued. The NHL at large doesn't watch our games, and Bobby is coming off of a statistically strong season and a solid performance for Team USA. While you or I might be able to point to flaws in his game, the rest of the league is over the moon about him. It's a pleasant secondary effect of East Coast Bias: we get no respect, but our stars sometimes get too much respect. If we play it right, we could be on the winning side of most any Bobby deal. So, Kaberle Schmaberle, what do you think you could get for Bobby Ryan?
0 recs |
91 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
I like to much this guy to think he’s going to leave… Stop writting nightmare posts!
Hometown : Montreal
First language : French
This explains why this post is filled with spelling, syntax and grammar mistakes!
If you like him, you should love this deal. It would send him to play for his hometown team, and they would probably pay him market price. This is probably a dream-come-true kind of deal for Bobby.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
We try to take real approaches to this. I have always said I don’t understand the hype. I think Bobby wants a 2—3 year deal for one of two reasons.
1) He hopes the new CBA will somehow help him go UFA sooner.
2) If he gets the 3 year deal, then his, Perry, and Getzlaf’s contracts all expire at the same time. At that point the club would no longer be able to use the “Getzlaf Cap” to limit the money he makes. He’d ask that all 3 get paid the same even though he probably has the lower value of the 3.
It’s the offseason, and this deal isn’t being worked out for whatever reason. It might be better to trade Bobby than deal with a disgruntled winger who thinks he is undervalued. Arthur’s right. The microscope hasn’t really been put to Bobby by the east coast people. If we have to move him, now is the time to do it.
I wish you would stop saying three. McKenzie is either misinformed or deducing desires based on refusals of four and five year deals. I doubt Ryan’s agent is feeding him secret info on the sly when he sent out a form letter the same day saying he promised not to negotiate it in the press. People in SoCal media and Adam Brady with the Ducks have all pointed to Four, and murray himself said the four deal was ‘for less.’
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, and I can’t find it in the OC Register archives, but didn’t Bobby say he was looking for ‘long term’ but thought the CBA was in his way? I don’t know how the prospects for the new CBA have changed in the last months, but wanting a short term deal like the three year deal Murray originally offered seems to go against that.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
did you touch up your posts? you had 3 comments just a second ago. I’ll go looking when the school computers are being nicer to me, but I thought I read somewhere, probably a Canadian source, that the 3 years was still a sticking point.
Also, It might seem crazy, but what about shipping Bobby Ryan to the Kings for Wayne Simmonds, a defensman like Matt Greene or Jack Johnson and a pick. I’m just throwing out ideas and this one jumped at me for some reason. Probably not as doable as a Philly trade, or a deal to some other Eastern Conference opponent, but worth discussing.
Yeah, I didn’t want to Albert K it up, so I tried to break it down into one post, but then remembered the OC Register article.
Kings deal wouldn’t work. They actually watch our games. They’re mad they didn’t get a D, but they’re more likely to offer sheet him than anything else. I was hoping for someone to put out some suggestions like Streit/Okposo or something. Maybe Orpik and pieces.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? The Pens top 4 looks good though. Martin, Michalek, Letang and Orpik with, Goligoski as a bottom pair anchor. I just can’t see them breaking up such a strong defensive Corp after Fleury struggled so much in the post season. I know they’d love to put Bobby with Crosby, but I’d wouldn’t want to break up a solid top 4 like that. Maybe that’s why I’m not a GM.
by Daniel AC on Jul 3, 2010 12:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
how long have they been searching for a finisher for Crosby? We can definitely get them to overpay.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
probably a Canadian source,
the ultimate source on that is going to be McKenzie who was misinformed. I haven’t read any assertion of 3 that wasn’t sourced in McKenzie.
I will point to this moment for anyone who thinks I have a problem with Daniel not reading Anaheim Calling. I enjoy it, because he demonstrates being misinformed very well.
Ryan has said previously that he’d seek a four-year deal that would take him to 2014, where he can be an unrestricted free agent. – Eric Stephens June 19th
Ryan, at the same time, may be seeking a deal for fewer than five years, since he’ll be an unrestricted free agent when he turns 27 in 2014. – Adam Brady, July 1stMcKenzie is right that term is at issue, but as Bobby has turned down 3, 4 AND 5 year deals, the money for that short term is also an issue. I know we complain about local media coverage, but what the ‘Canadian sources’ are saying is an about face from what local media has reported as recently as July 1st, so unless it came straight out of Meehan or Bobby’s mouths, I’m not going to trouble myself over three
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s a backhanded compliment. Thanks Arthur.
by Daniel AC on Jul 3, 2010 12:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
well, it’s theoretically your job to present a different point of view, so there’s a compliment in there somewhere. I just don’t want anyone to see you not reading this site as an indictment of me or Robby or Jen. It actually serves a purpose, whatever its reasoning.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Thats what I was thinking
Lead organizer of the annual 7 round live mock draft at MtD and Moderator
by TheAngelsColts on Jul 3, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
As wonderful as the prospect of having Jeff Carter is the answer is just no. We would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we shipped Ryan off for another forward. Currently, even without Bobby Ryan, our offense is fine, possibly even overcrowded. Our defense on the other hand is currently on life support. There is no point at supercharging our offense if our defense is nonexistent. If the defense that we have now is the defense that we go into opening day with, then we might as well give up any chance of making the playoffs now.
got about two paragraphs in before you didn’t want to read anymore, huh? That’s cool, but know that I resist the temptation to delete comments as much as you resisted the temptation to keep reading.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
No I read the whole thing. My comment was just pointing out how insane the idea of pursuing Carter would be.
So the fact that the ultimate deal suggested is Carter/Carle comes across to you as what? Us playing Carle in Goal?
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I have nothing against going after Carle. I was just trying to point out that the Philly shopping list should include only Carle.
we’re pretty thin at center. Koivu’s deal, two years and all, is nice, but Carter puts some size up the middle, plays the PK and has a deadly shot. If you’re talking three scoring lines, that’s three legit centers. Much better option than asking Chipchura, Marchant, Carter, Bonino or Deschamps to do it next year.
Plus, while the ideal move is Carle/Van Riemsdyk for Ryan, that doesn’t help Philly shed money, so it’s TOO laughable. And Carle does come across as overinflated in any straight up for ryan deal.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I think part of my problem is that I fail to see how Ryan would be worth a Carter and a Carle. Sure Bobby may be overvalued a bit, but Carle is a bit overvalued to due to high statistics from playing with Pronger. Plus I’m not sure that a deal with the Flyers would be the best move or the most likely. I know Carle good, but I’m just not sold on him.
I think he is. He’s a hometown kid and that has value. If we sweeten the deal with a mid-round pick or a prospect, maybe it’s more doable to Philly. Not only that, but Philly REALLY wants a high scoring winger to go with their depth up the middle, and they want to shed cap space to chase a goalie to compliment Leighton. If you think of it as an even swap of Carter and Ryan, plus a salary dump for PHI, then it makes a little more sense.
With the pieces the Flyers added, I think they might be interested in moving a defenseman this year anyways, at least by the deadline. So, it’s not out of the question. They were already looking to move Carter, so they’re not in love with his salary or the prospect of re-signing him.
Re-signing is the major issue. They can get Bobby for four years now; we would have to negotiate with Carter in one and Carle is UFA in two with a graduated salary for each year. It’s not a great deal for a budget team, and our parts aren’t guaranteed for four years. So, it’s not really laughable from the contract standpoint. Player value, one player is rarely worth two, but bringing a Philly boy home is supposedly priceless.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Plus, we’re losing ryan in that deal. Getting a scoring forward for him isn’t functionally any different from re-signing him. This would be like re-signing him and having a defenseman as OUR signing bonus. I don’t really see how it’s misguided pursuit of supercharged offense when it’s replacing, not adding.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
you can say Carle’s numbers are inflated, but he’s gotten used to playing the minutes. I mean, even if he can’t replace the shift-to-shift offense of a Niedermayer, he’s a pretty solid return on the back end.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
id take Coburn way in front of Carle…
Lets do a BlockBuster trade
TO Ana:
Carter
Coburn
Gagné
To Phi
Ryan
Blake
Palmieri
Bobkov
1rst round 2011
ana cap hit 13.45
phi cap hit (if we project that BR signs 4.5 per) 8.5
they get rid of one of their center and shed 4.95 M$ in cap space
Fair deal?
Hometown : Montreal
First language : French
This explains why this post is filled with spelling, syntax and grammar mistakes!
I’ll add this…
IMO, Ryan’s value is over Carter’s
Phi wants to get rid of 40 pts concussion history Gagné
they get a good goalie prospect (he’s 6’4’’, its phi style…)
And they get cap space to sign veteran goalie like Turco to a 3M/1yr deal
Hometown : Montreal
First language : French
This explains why this post is filled with spelling, syntax and grammar mistakes!
I don’t know. Flyer’s cap woes aside, I see Carter and Ryan as basically even in value, so I find it hard to imagine receiving anything worthwhile along side Carter.
After all, Carter was the leading goal scorer in the league out of anyone not named Ovechkin two seasons ago.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally, I like Coburn better than Carle too, but given that he was just resigned to a 2 year deal, I don’t think he’s on the market anymore.
what about my deal? Replace Coburn by Carle and it’s fair deal? they save 0.238 more if they trade Carle…
Hometown : Montreal
First language : French
This explains why this post is filled with spelling, syntax and grammar mistakes!
I don’t think they’d go for it because Coburn is cheaper, and they probably like him better. I also don’t know if Murray even asks for Coburn when Carle showed so much offense this year. That guy doesn’t believe in paying a dime too much for a defenseman unless there’s huge offensive upside.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
CALM DOWN
Coburn was horrible in the Cup final!!! We all need to calm down all the piece’s to a contender dont magically fall in place. With the Salary cap era we need to develop our own stars, our defense is not amazing now biut give it year when Fowler and Sbisa have developed.
This exercise has little to do with acquiring D and almost everything to do with Bobby’s increasingly ridiculous contract demands. If this thing gets any messier, Bobby leaves in 4 years anyway. Worse yet, he contaminates the locker room. Look, sometimes you have to give to get. If Bobby wants to go UFA as soon as possible, so that he can increase his bargaining power and get more money, then maybe he needs to shut up and take the 4.5 instead of the full 5 he wants.
by Daniel AC on Jul 4, 2010 8:47 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I should reiterate
that this was supposed to be a thought experiment, where everyone considered the kinds of deals we could get beyond offer sheet compensation that might make them okay with losing Bobby Ryan. Those deals don’t have to be with Philadelphia. They can be with anyone who’s probably overvaluing Ryan right now.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 1:54 PM PDT reply actions
Its been said before, but I’ll say it again. I wouldn’t mind having Kaberle. Maybe Murray won’t consider the prospect of trading Ryan for Kaberle ridiculous anymore.
Bobby Ryan for Luke Schenn and Nikolai Kulemin.
by Daniel AC on Jul 3, 2010 2:12 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I realize this is probably not the ideal trade but for the sake of this debate I’m going to throw out Marc Savard from the Bruins for Bobby Ryan. On the good side, Savard is a proven preformer when healthy. The bad side is that he isn’t always healthy.
I still don’t think that’s thinking big enough. Something like Savard, Wheeler and Hunwick for Ryan and Wisniewski is more what I’m saying in terms of thought experiment. Then I start feeling a little bit better for the loss of Ryan.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know.. I can’t help, but think that you’re over exaggerating the market value of Ryan.
We need more Boyntons.
this isn’t meant to be a place for realistic trade proposals. It’s a thought experiment. You accept that there are people willing to overpay and you try to create examples of overpayment that would make you okay with losing Ryan. If you’re already okay with losing Ryan, then you’ll probably come up with small simple “as long as we don’t get screwed” deals. If you’re not okay with it, you’ll probably come up with completely ridiculous Malkin and two first round pick deals.
I’m kind of in the middle, where I just think if he can get us a guy who would keep us deep at center for the next five years and a defenseman we can use for the balance of Getzlaf and Perry’s contract, then I’m sold and I could really care less that we’re losing a 2nd overall pick in terms of asset value.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Alright, I thunk I’ve got it. Bobby Ryan and a second round pick to the penguins for Chris Kunitz, Eric Tangradi, and Brooks Orpik.
I know I said iSight think pittsburgh would break up that top 4, but if we’re being creative, maybe they really do it to get that winger for Crosby.
Arthur originally said Orpik, I just built the rest of the trade.
by Daniel AC on Jul 3, 2010 7:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
i said orpik and pieces, but that’s awesome
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate this experiment.
I don’t want Carter. Carter, along with Richards, were Loops two party buddies while in Philly. Although, this would benefit me in the Lupul goal counter challenge.
"I'm not a lady. I'm a DUCK!" - Connie Moreau, D2: Mighty Ducks
Writer for http://www.anaheimcalling.com
by Sticks.Gloves.Shirt on Jul 3, 2010 8:58 PM PDT reply actions
You could get Upshall from Phoenix too and truly reunite the gang!
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 4, 2010 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
BOOO!! Upshall is not that far away in Phoenix.
Lappy! If I ever come to Philly, I’m going to look you up, just to punch you in the face. XOXO ;)
"I'm not a lady. I'm a DUCK!" - Connie Moreau, D2: Mighty Ducks
Writer for http://www.anaheimcalling.com
by Sticks.Gloves.Shirt on Jul 4, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
The predictablility of your Lupul hate is once again on display Sticks. I mean did the guy refuse to sign your rack or something? Oh yeah - I remember, it was because he twittered during his downtime fighting that minor post operative spinal infection which caused those overzealous doctors to have to go in and open up his spine again. What a slacker!
;)
Oh Gizmo…really?
First, if I wanted a pro-hockey player to grope my rack, I would pick Getzlaf, not Lupul. How Nascar/Hair-metal band groupie of me to get my tit signed, by the way.
Second, please go back and read “Jen Signs the Ducks Yearbook” in my section. You’ll note that I took up the subject of Lupul’s tweets because his off ice activity contributed to additional downtime. My dad had the same surgery as him. What helped? Resting. What didn’t Loops do? Rest.
I don’t hate the guy by any means. I was simply commenting on information HE made public. A blood infection is a frightening thing and surely I did not wish that on him. Yet, you have to admit, partying at the Playboy mansion or bar hopping isn’t going to speed up anyone’s recovery.
Hope this doesn’t hurt our relationship, Gizmo ;)
"I'm not a lady. I'm a DUCK!" - Connie Moreau, D2: Mighty Ducks
Writer for http://www.anaheimcalling.com
by Sticks.Gloves.Shirt on Jul 7, 2010 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully you can see my tongue planted firmly in cheek Sticks. You are a good sport.
Look, I think that you guys will be happy once Lupul gets back on the ice. With that said, we laugh about his tweets too. It’s either laugh or cringe in embarrassment. Lupul was just born without that Gene which effects the development of a sense of modesty. People still joke about him playing his acoustic guitar on the roof of his condo in Philly.
What is kinda funny though is that he lives in Newport Beach, lives like any other 20 something bachelor, and I would think that if anyone would cut him some slack, it would be people living in OC. At the end of the day, tweets or not, nobody really knows what the situation was other than Lupul and his doctors, but considering what we do know happened, it was pretty serious. If he comes back at the start of this season out of shape, and sucks, then I’ll be the first to admit he slacked off.
Loops was actually cleared to skate three times since RECOVERING from the blood infection, and he just started skating half speed yesterday. Again, the trainers’ revised timetable after RECOVERING from the blood infection was that he could return after the Olympics if he used that time to recondition. So while Tweets aren’t conclusive evidence of his actual lifestyle, I wouldn’t go rushing to his defense either.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 7, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
There’s no doubt he needs ice time, but it’s the summer. With the weight loss, he probably needed strength, conditioning and weight training more. Do we know whether or not he’s been doing that? Very few players in the NHL worry about getting a lot of ice time in the summer. The summer is when they fish, golf, drink beer, and work out in the gym. The beer counts as carb loading btw.
I’m pointing out that his original time table factoring in that he’d already healed from the blood infection was March, so if you think we’re giving him a hard time for being out, you’re wrong. He’s been out WAY past generous, generous timetables that factor in the complications.
But even if we were giving him a hard time for being out, the way he described it, that he finally decided to get things looked at by a specialist when there was intermittent numbness in his legs, that sounds pretty careless for a guy who makes money off of his body. That’s a major symptom, could even have been multiple sclerosis, so I don’t feel like we’re picking on some sick invalid, sorry.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 7, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
He actually played really well with Lupul in the postseason a couple years ago. I don’t know if you can hang playoff disappearing act on him because role players have been more clutch for Philly lately.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Again, he skated on two broken feet. Gagne was skating on a broken foot. The fact that our first line did anything on three broken feet is a miracle.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
I thought one of the feet had healed by then. I just generally didn’t want to make the injury argument. By the way, are we linked on BSH, or did you just wander over to this post? I didn’t want this to be taken as a serious trade proposal, I was just noting that we might be able to work an uneven deal if we trade Bobby to a team that needs him. And being that Philly is home for him, I used Philly as the example.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I registered on here a bit ago but you’ve been linked in a Fanshot by PursuitofLappyness on BSH:
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2010/7/3/1551549/anaheim-calling-get-carter
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
aw nuts. Now I have to go clarify.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Just to warn you, people over on BSH (like me) feel that the Ducks would have to give more than Ryan for it to be a fair trade. Or at least that was what was being discussed a week or two ago.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
You have to create cap space somehow right? What other moves are you planning on making, or what are you looking for in exchange. Not trying to get confrontational, just looking for a little insight from someone who might know a little more about the organization than I do.
Well at the time, the Flyers had cap space for such a deal and still needed defense help… so it made sense. Now there would obviously be a salary to dump as well.
Something I can tell you is that a Gagne/Carter/Coburn trade would never, ever fly.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
If I was making a serious pitch I’d be trying to make something that involved Bobby going and Carle and Carter coming here. Straight up would be preferable, in case you’re looking for space to sign Nabokov or Turco, but is there something else you’d want in that scenario?
Well, this isn’t a serious trade proposal, though the prospect of getting a longterm center and a short term defenseman for Ryan, I think, is a deal the Ducks couldn’t turn down.
A year ago, I would have said Carter for Ryan straight up was uneven. But now, you guys are actually looking to get rid of Carter and people think Ryan is awesome (rightly or wrongly), not to mention he’s a Flyers fan born and bred. Ryan’s got the cachet and Carter may still be a movable salary piece after Gagne’s trade, so you guys are at a disadvantage there. And in the sense of contract utility, you have to remember you can afford to pay Ryan and you’ll get four years out of him. There’s no guarantee we can pay Carter, or that he won’t demand a one year deal after next year so he can be a UFA. That leaves us with maybe two years out of him. So, you have to factor that in, which is the primary reason I threw a defenseman into this.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Matt Carle was a top three defenseman for the Flyers last season, couple that with Carter being a first line center/winger and now you’re asking a lot for just Ryan. Draft picks or a NHL-ready young goalie would be in order. Don’t forget that Carter has been amongst the top five in goals scored in the NHL the last couple of seasons.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
For both, we’d no doubt have to throw something in there. But I think you absolutely need both to guarantee we’d get the same four years of playing time you’d be getting out of Ryan. Ryan for Carter straight up doesn’t look as good anymore, because if Carter laughs off a longterm at what we pay Getzlaf, he’s gone after two seasons.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
again, though, the above wasn’t serious, just meant to delve into the notion that Bobby Ryan is currently worth something, and it’s based on some major exposure of limited performance, so this is the best time for us to GET an uneven deal. As that was the point, talking about how the deal is uneven is going to make my head hurt.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Flyers fans are going to slightly overvalue Ryan because some (again, me included) believe he may give the Flyers a home team discount for a contract. Don’t forget he was raised in Cherry Hill, NJ. If he was to take that 4 year, $20 million (or longer) deal with the Flyers, people would be happier.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
Oh I know where he’s from, and I know he grew up a fan of Pelle Eklund, and as Flyers fans pointed out here, his family is personal friends with Bobby Clarke. As a hockey fan, I love the idea of sending the kid to Philly, and if he’d sign past his UFA with any team, I’m guessing it’s the Flyers. He might still want 5.5-6, but I can’t imagine he’d haggle over term.
It’s a great story, no doubt, but for four years of RFA right on a 2nd overall pick, you could see why the Ducks would want a guaranteed four years of quality playing time in return.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
and I’m assuming Van Riemsdyk isn’t on the table as that does nothing for you guys salary-wise ;)
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Carter + JVR would mean all of your prized possessions in the world and then some.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
hahaha, I meant JVR instead. In my mind, JVR and a defenseman or picks is the ideal trade, but then you guys wouldn’t be in a better place salary-wise.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 3, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
The whole point of Carter in the trade is not only to dump salary but to trade a C for a W. Carter is a quality center, the Flyers need a quality winger, it makes perfect sense to swap C for W. JVR would mean a W (who was the #2 overall pick in 2007) being traded for Ryan, another W (and another former #2 overall pick).
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
Honestly, it would be nice for us to be deeper at center and to entertain the idea that Carter re-ups for five years and keeps us deep at center, but we’re not trying to keep a playoff window open like you guys. We’ve got some centers in the pipeline, and some bona fide scoring and finishing would be nice when they mature. Not to mention the fact that as a budget team, we don’t want to take on salary so taking on a kid with more RFA time and a small price tag right now is always preferable.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 4, 2010 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions
so that’s why that trade’s ideal for the Ducks. Again, it does nothing for you guys, salary-wise or replacing a wing instead of adding one.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 4, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Even if that were true, which it really isn’t, Carter’s NHL leading game winning goals year before last year would sure go a long way.
Carter hasn’t had a real breakout playoff year, and I think this might have been the one had he not had the broken feet. For Gagne and Carter, had the Flyers not eeked their way into the playoffs neither player would have been back. Neither were suppossed to have returned — it was true NHL style we’re-playing-for-the-cup-give-me-the-shot style grit that got both players out there. Both guys had screws inserted, so this wasn’t just playing with bruises type of stuff. You could tell that neither player was a shadow of their normal selves based on the last 3rd of the season. I’ll go so far to say that Jeff Carter is currently one of the most bankable point producers in the NHL because it really doesn’t matter much who you put him out with, he’ll get some goals. People in philly see that as a strength and a weakness, because he takes a lot of shots, and there’s a perception that he doesn’t pass enough, and can be selfish. There’s also a perception that he wouldn’t want to move to wing even if that was the best for the team, even though I don’t think that moving him to wing makes sense.
I don’t know where these perceptions come from — we even have one person who has professed that Carter didn’t appear sad enough when we lost the cup, and this in some way speaks to his heart and desire for the cup.
People might not have mentioned that up to the broken foot he was one of the most resilient players on the team, having not missed any games since he joined the team and pushing up against some team continuous appearance records, is solid defensively (killed tons of penalties 2 seasons ago) and also that he’s the best faceoff guy on the team.
From my point of view, Jeff Carter is truly an elite player, and that’s based on seeing close to every game he’s played in the last 3 years. I think he’ll get better, but there are some issues with chemistry that still need to be resolved. As I pointed out originally, his best year was with Lupul on wing (with Hartnell on the other) and apparently Lupul was such a big factor on that line that the Flyers moved Hartnell off Carter’s line this year, which says a lot even though Hartnell was in a career low funk.
To the point of this article however, I don’t see much chance in the Flyers moving Carter+ Carle who was without a doubt the Flyers best offensive defenseman last year. The Flyers made moves to have the best D corps in the NHL, and I think it more likely they’d move Coburn before Carle. Timmonen can pretty much play with anyone, and with our aquisitions so far, I don’t see the organization giving up their best O- D-man when clearly they plan on being a team that pushes aggressively from the blueline again this year under the Lavvy attack system. Coburn’s offensive efforts this past year were absolutely dreadful, but we did need his physical presence. Now, not so much.
Well, the “point of this article” as it now repeats multiple times was not to make a serious suggestion of Carle and Carter. I’ve even noted that caveat on BSH, so I guess this is the last time I’ll say it.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 6, 2010 6:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
it is hard to see us getting back equal value for baby ryan if he doesn’t want to play here. Jeff Carter and Matt Carle would be nice, but I’m looking for some kind of size to add to our backline. Imagine Carle and visnovsky trying to keep Kopitar and Smyth from the goal front…
Carter might be a nice addition up the middle for the ducks though.
Bobby Ryan and Kyle Palmieri for Carter
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Jul 5, 2010 10:22 AM PDT reply actions
Two Jersey gorillas for a Canadian? We should totally get Snooky and The Situation back in that deal, and you know it.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Jul 5, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
hahahaha.
If you’ve been following my bff Loops on Twitter, he’s been flirting with Snooky. I was afraid of getting an STD from reading the tweet.
"I'm not a lady. I'm a DUCK!" - Connie Moreau, D2: Mighty Ducks
Writer for http://www.anaheimcalling.com
by Sticks.Gloves.Shirt on Jul 5, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Anaheim Calling
Related FanShots on Anaheim Calling
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
CK Photo Galleries
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
