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Around SBN: Two Minutes Of Thunder Basketball Wins The Game

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ARTHUR:
It's hard to write-off last night's loss to the Kings when the key hands of Anaheim's 30-man Training Camp roster were all at their battle stations. When you consider the fact that long term injuries, Jason Jaffray and Joffrey Lupul, are still eating a pair of spots and that Toni Lydman is "a long ways off," the remaining coterie of 27 doesn't stand out as season-ready. Here's the roster with the aforementioned names struck through:

LW C R
Matt Beleskey Ryan Carter Troy Bodie
Jason Blake Kyle Chipchura Joffrey Lupul
Josh Green Ryan Getzlaf George Parros
Jason Jaffray Saku Koivu Corey Perry
Aaron Voros Maxime Macenauer Teemu Selanne
Todd Marchant Dan Sexton
Bobby Ryan
D
Sheldon Brookbank
Brett Festerling
Cam Fowler
Toni Lydman
Paul Mara
Brendan Mikkelson
Luca Sbisa
Andy Sutton
Danny Syvret
Lubomir Visnovsky
G
Jonas Hiller
Curtis McElhinney

Perhaps what's most troubling is that some potential cuts still stick out like a sore thumb: Danny Syvret, for example, at least based on last night's performance (and a giveaway per game stat). The final roster is almost fully formed with not even a handful of legitimate questions or fill-ins. The players are, perhaps, still warming their engines, but they had better find the next gear before the games start to matter. Otherwise, shuffling for chemistry will turn into shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic rather quickly.

More after the jump...

Star-divide

Cam Fowler

If Luca Sbisa's experience last season is any indication, the Ducks will send Fowler down the moment (within the first few games) that this season starts to look like last season. But when you look at the players standing between the young defenseman and a coveted roster spot, it's hard to ignore how many of them are banking on their NHL experience and not their NHL toolkit. It's a prime opportunity for Cam Fowler to dig deep for his best game of leapfrog. For now, Toni Lydman isn't standing in his way, and the absence of the Ducks' 3M/yr defenseman must make game-planning for Fowler in the Top 4 very attractive for Coach Carlyle.

Faceoffs

Of the few highlights last night was a positive performance in the circle. Bobby Ryan had trouble with Brayden Schenn, but the other Ducks' centers combined for a 65% winning percentage on the dot. Here's a breakdown of where everyone is through the preseason (the lower chart breaks down the per game numbers with the games listed chronologically from left to right).

Bobby Ryan 15 of 34 44% Maxime Macenauer 11 of 28 39%
Ryan Carter 8 of 21 38% Saku Koivu 22 of 33 67%
Ryan Getzlaf 29 of 50 58% Todd Marchant 13 of 20 65%
Kyle Chipchura 15 of 33 45%

Bobby Ryan 8 of 20 6 of 9 1 for 5
Ryan Carter 6 of 16 2 of 5
Ryan Getzlaf 8 of 13 9 of 18 12 of 19
Kyle Chipchura 3 of 11 12 of 22
Maxime Macenauer 6 of 12 2 of 9 3 of 7
Saku Koivu 9 of 16 13 of 17
Todd Marchant 5 of 8 8 of 12

Line Combinations

It's overreaching, the idea that Bobby Ryan worked on a second line last year, so he should work on the second line this year. In Nintendo Ice Hockey terms, a line of Sexton-Koivu-Ryan made Ryan the fat guy i.e. the hitter and puck retriever. In a Macenauer-Ryan-Selanne line, Ryan is the medium sized guy, the finesse guy and playmaker. Now, while Bobby is not the skinny guy, the speedster-finisher, in either of these sets, the job of the fat guy and the medium sized guy are not the same. And to make matters worse, Ryan has the tendency to think 'skinny,' turning his back on the puck, making no-look one-handed plays on the puck, cycling and coming free off the boards, all for the sake of getting open instead of getting the actual puck. If those moves become turnovers, the center can't cover for him, because, well, yeah.

Don't get me wrong, though. I do support the idea that if you give an inexperienced center great players, you increase his chances for success. And then, your experienced center (Koivu, in this case) knows the game well enough to build a line out of whatever you give him. But roles and playing styles do count for something. And in the regular season, there is no room for 'oops' moments where two finishers are open in the slot and one guy (who is not Wayne Gretzky) is trying to fight off three defenders to get them the puck.

In the second and third line jumble, Ryan needs a legitimate banger with some defensive ability and maybe a playmaker on the wing who can center the puck. He doesn't seem ready for the defensive or playmaking demands that come with playing with Selanne. This is the best way to set the middle line combinations, which will have a solidifying effect on the rest of the roster.

If that means putting Bobby on what is technically a "third line" with fewer minutes, then so be it. Last I checked, he was learning to do something new.

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Whom would you put on Ryan's line?

Bodie and Blake?

That doesn’t sound appetizing.

"Make me a bicycle, clown"

by Floyd Gondoli on Sep 29, 2010 11:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Well, I don’t think Ryan is so simple that we need to go back to basic line construction, but a pure finisher like Teemu is a lot to handle. Carlyle is using a secondary center on the line in Macenauer, but if you’re going to have a finisher like Teemu or Blake, you need more backup. Maybe Marchant, who has been backing up Chipchura. I don’t know. It seems kind of strange that Ryan got the eldest winger and the greenest backup center.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 29, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ideally, I liked what they gave him in Smith-Pelly early on, but we don’t really have a Smith-Pelly right now, so it’s hard to give him that. I suppose you could give him Marchant and Sexton, but Ryan would have to be willing to take the puck back on that line. He had some good hits last night. You never know.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 29, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

He seemed to really get it going

In the second period and there was one shift in particular where he used his body to get the puck in the defensive zone, muscled thru the neutral zone, and ended up setting teemu up I the slot.

But I agree. His current linemates would seem to be a tall order for anyone learning that position.

by PhantomPretender on Sep 29, 2010 12:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

If the ultimate goal is to have two dominant lines featuring Getzlaf and Ryan up the middle, then Ryan probably needs to be moved to the 3rd line. It’s only the first year of his deal, and after he learns the position, and Koivu isn’t needed to center for Selanne, he can take over the second line. If he’s grown up enough to force his agents to make a deal for him to stay where he supposedly wants, he’s grown up enough to know that this is a one year thing that will make him much better for the next decade.

by Daniel AC on Sep 29, 2010 1:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Have we heard if bobby

Would be irritated playing on the third line? For the most part, I haven’t seen him say much about playing center at all aside from “they want me to do it so I’m doing it”

by PhantomPretender on Sep 29, 2010 3:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think the two biggest arguments you can make for not putting Bobby Ryan on a third line are: 1) He would be irritated being relegated to the third line. 2) It’s a waste of his talents, team money, to not get him second line minutes. My first comment is an attempt to rebut both arguments.

by Daniel AC on Sep 29, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

The third line should be less of the relegation line, and more of ANOTHER line of scoring…one which could force other teams to deal with, especially if Ryan is as or near as productive….I agree with your post 100%

by Buick22 on Sep 30, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was appreciative that they were in their usual mid season form on the first powerplay, where they had 2 chances to clear the puck and failed miserably on both.

When Koivu reversed the puck along the end boards instead of just firing it up the side was troubling. It was like he expected #27 to be able to glide over and pick it up off the far side when he rimmed it around. Instead both D-men weren’t expecting it and it went right to the Kings player.

Now, while Bobby is not the skinny guy, the speedster-finisher, in either of these sets, the job of the fat guy and the medium sized guy are not the same. And to make matters worse, Ryan has the tendency to think ‘skinny,’ turning his back on the puck, making no-look one-handed plays on the puck, cycling and coming free off the boards, all for the sake of getting open instead of getting the actual puck. If those moves become turnovers, the center can’t cover for him, because, well, yeah.

That sounds like every shift from Getzlaf last year. Maybe it’s rubbing off on silver.

"Whenever I’m suffering from insomnia, I just look at a picture of a Toyota Camry and I’m straight off."

by Morbo on Sep 29, 2010 2:37 PM PDT reply actions  

haha, Getzlaf isn’t the most defensively responsible guy, either, but he has a fat guy with hands mentality, so he’s very much interested in possessing the puck and could really give a fuck if he’s open. Small plays from him don’t bother me because he’s not really trying to get the puck back. If Ryan barrels people and really embraces a Getzlaf-type role, then yesterday’s line could totally work.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 29, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

First can we just get Ryan on the damn wing already? Let him do what he is good at. We have way to many centers to begin with. What do you think about this? Take Carter and stick him on the wing with Chips and Bodie. That could be a damn good third line.

by Newport Rebel on Sep 29, 2010 3:58 PM PDT reply actions  

I actually really like Bobby Ryan at center, but, as Arthur has been noting through this entire process, it’s really all about whether or not Bobby can adapt to being in the middle. He’s still a pretty immature player. He couldn’t fit in on the wing on the top line. He didn’t really mesh with Koivu and Selanne. The only place Bobby can really go where he will be a help and not a hindrance is a third line, at that point, let him center it, learn the new position, and make us a better team in the future.

by Daniel AC on Sep 29, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

He couldn’t fit in on the wing on the top line. He didn’t really mesh with Koivu and Selanne.

I don’t know about that. He stopped playing the way Getzlaf and Perry like. You could just as easily call them for not adjusting. And he looked good with Koivu and Sexton, so it’s really a question of putting two identical finishers on one line, which isn’t good for Selanne either, not necessarily a failing on Ryan’s part. This isn’t like when Wisniewski couldn’t play with anyone. The science of three is different from pairings.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 29, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it necessarily is in this instance. Carlyle has treated his lines, to an extent, as pairs with a rotating part. He doesn’t break up Getzlaf and Perry, and last year he didn’t want to break up Koivu and Selanne, although he eventually did. Even if it’s not his fault, the lines didn’t click when he was there. Beleskey fits on the top line, does what they want consistently, and has, for the most part been a success. We saw very solid performances from Koivu-Blake-Selanne last year. Our rationales might be different, but I am agreeing with you. Bobby would be best on a third line.

by Daniel AC on Sep 29, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

They clicked fine in the 2009 playoffs, which is why non-Ducks fans are so convinced it’s rhe best group. In the end, it stopped working because Ryab adjusted his game, not becuase he intended for it to stop working or becuae he was incapacle of making it work, which was the implication of what you were saying.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 29, 2010 8:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I hate to say it, but backcheck (your good buddy?) said the same thing about the pairs…and RC’s stubborness in that respect

I think Ryan on the third (not third best) (or third choice, such labels!) would be good for matchups in that scoring, though not as frequent, would be key to making other teams defend him, and would give us a chane to not re-rotate the same two lines near the end or periods.games….I think he could be the silent killer on the third line

by Buick22 on Sep 29, 2010 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Backcheck is actually a fucktard

There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.

by Natesaduck on Sep 29, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

is he still on the OC Register comments? Last I saw, they chased him off, and he said he’d be back in blog form. He had apparently gotten into a namecalling row with one too many a commenter, or maybe just one who was willing to call him on how often he’s wrong.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 30, 2010 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Backcheck is actually a fucktard

LOL.

by Mudhippy on Sep 30, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

For better or worse, the rpg line was considered to be one of the best in hockey. I think he corps still be effective on that line but I also think the team believes they could get greater value by replacing bobby with a "lesser"player and letting bobby lead a different line.

by PhantomPretender on Sep 29, 2010 7:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Though I am not convinced it will work, I am still in for this experiment as well. There’s no reason we can’t look a Crosby, Malkin like duo up the middle for the next few years with Getzlaf and Ryan. Just not sure we have the pieces right now to make it successful sooner rather than later.

You can still double shift and unite the RPG line throughout the game.

by cal-S- on Sep 30, 2010 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Went to the Crunch game tonight

Palmieri is an absolute beast. There’s no other way to put it.

by MagicsJohnson on Sep 29, 2010 7:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Sweet, did you put some stuff on your log about it?….heading east….

by Buick22 on Sep 29, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

How has Fowler looked? Aside from the business aspects (saving years of ELC and RFA), is there any reason to send him back to the OHL? I’m sure he could still develop there, as any young D could, but is he legitimately ready to play in the NHL?

Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman

by Rob Parker on Sep 29, 2010 11:03 PM PDT reply actions  

He was rudimentary at times…couldn’t catch up at others…the whole team seemed like pylons vs. the bluurrr that was the Queens, maybe a scouting report, that screams…RYAN SMYTH Don’t leave him alone anywhere near the net…he is a huge part of their team’s success….crafty that one..

by Buick22 on Sep 29, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

But he made safe passes when he could….not saying he was a disaster…I don’t know the ramifications of not giving hm the Sbisa treatment and letting him have a year with junior players…I am not savvy enough to make that argument….just still awake at 1120 pst…:-)

by Buick22 on Sep 29, 2010 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still awake at 1120?

Doesn’t seem that late to me.

In regards to Fowler, I personally think it could go either way. To me, he’s shown enough that he’s capable to play in Anaheim’s top 4 THIS year. Whether Randy and Bob agree is another story, but being a pessimist, I’ll say they don’t.

My guess is they’re counting on Lydman to come back and thrive. I’m not sure that I would share that sentiment.

There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.

by Natesaduck on Sep 29, 2010 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

It isn’t late…I can’t get why Lydman is a mystery, we are not in the middle of nowhere..get him to Cedars or Loma LInda and handle it…..The key with the D, is that there are no rocks to lean on…unless Sutton suddenly stands up…we need a rock, skater, smasher, talker, someone….it looked like a circus last night…not just because of the choppy feed either…I have not answered my phone as my closest hockey friend has 5-6 Kings jerseys in his closet,,,which is ironic as growing up in Anaheim, I saw Flyers-Kings brawling in the 70’s at the forum….

by Buick22 on Sep 29, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Talk about rambling..

But I agree with you on Lydman. Though I’m sure the insiders know what’s going on, I’d like them to publicize his condition. Perhaps they’re waiting for the season opener to sell out before they announce Toni won’t be playing at all this season? Who knows?!

There's nothing to see here. And nothing gazes back at me.

by Natesaduck on Sep 29, 2010 11:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, sorry bout that, reading it the next day, I sound like I was on something…just a little short attention span night…

by Buick22 on Sep 30, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mean, if you’re looking for what Doughty did as a rookie, he might be able to come close, just holding his own over the long season. If you’re looking for what Doughty did last year, no way.

The Ducks’ primary reason to send him back down at this point (aside from business) would be the cop out reason they used on Sbisa that a losing experience is bad for his development, which really still sounds like a business reason. I mean, as far as performance, he’s skating well, gapping forwards well, moving the puck about as well as most of the new D. He’s not always as in position as someone playing with Visnovsky needs to be, but it’s not a difficult system defensively for someone who’s willing to keep their head down and buy into it.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 30, 2010 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's what I've been saying

Maybe I am overstepping, but i had the RPG line minus the R (Blesekey/Voros)
Masterton Reunion=Chemistry
Bodie (for the size/hitting) Ryan for the scoring stickhandle-Sexton for speed and passing
Parros (who seemed lost unless w/o gloves)- Marchant-Green/Voros/anyone else that skates

a real problem was someone to clear the back end…..Sutton (who can hit) never hit
Lubo (who can shoot) never shot, or came up unless on PP
and Sbisa and the rest looked like they had just met…

McIlhenney had a rough night…mostly because the Kings kept shooting

Arthur…good post!

by Buick22 on Sep 29, 2010 11:05 PM PDT reply actions  

got to put syvret on blast too. Man, I saw some very timid d from him while he was on. Surprised he wasn’t assigned to Syracuse today…

by cal-S- on Sep 30, 2010 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bodie with Ryan and Sexy might work, but I think someone with better hands would be better suited… Lupul I’m talking about you

by cal-S- on Sep 30, 2010 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

three scoring lines with a big boy line

for now
BELESKEY – GETZLAF – PERRY
BLAKE – KOIVU – SELANNE
CHIPCHURA – RYAN – SEXTON
PARROS – MARCHANT – BODIE/VOROS
                                                                          reserves: Josh Green or Ryan Carter

you can change out Chipchura with Green or Carter since they all are can fulfill that more responsible role on the line and add face-off experience in case ryan struggles in a game.

by cal-S- on Sep 30, 2010 12:54 AM PDT reply actions  

I like Chipchura as backup for Ryan. Got a little bit of grit to get the puck back. Sexton hits, too, but he also creates an obvious shooting option. And all three are capable of playmaking.

There are a number of possibilities, which is why I didn’t list a preferred combo, but the dynamic of Ryan/Selanne is tough, even if you’re operating under the theory that Ryan will stop thinking like a finisher. But guaranteeing the line a defensive and puck retrieving presence seems more important to me than finding Ryan the right finisher.

by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Sep 30, 2010 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

exactly.

I think the energy Chip and Sexton bring is a perfect fit for the sometimes out of sorts Ryan. We saw a spark of it last year when you paired him with the speedy/feisty Koivu and Sexton. Actually, saying that, Marchant seems like he might be the right guy if Chipchura doesn’t work out. The veteran stability he’d add to the line could only be a plus.

by cal-S- on Sep 30, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

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