Is there a fire to go with this smoke?
by Daniel AC on Oct 12, 2011 10:13 AM PDT
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PrintDANIEL:
i didn't write a story because I didn't think there was a full story here, but I at least wanted to call attention to it. After being shipped out, Newton opined that the Ducks didn't have realistic expectations for him. You can catch the original story here; I found a link in the OC Register. OK, third person nonsense aside, Newton makes the point that the Ducks pressed him so hard to develop his physical game, that it derailed his offensive game. I've observed before that we blatantly misused Ryan Whitney, and I'm wondering if Foster is going to show up and be expected to better develop his physical game at the expense of his offensive game.
I wasn't in any player-coach meetings between Newton and the organization, so I don't know what they were telling him to do. However, when a player openly says the organization asked him to change his game from his original talent, and then shipped him off when he couldn't do it, it doesn't speak highly as to how they develop their talent. The Ducks have made a habit of discovering great collegiate talent that other teams miss. If there continues to be evidence that the Ducks are misusing these players, it could make it difficult for McNab to do what he does best. Just something to think about.
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Chris Kunitz immediately jumps to mind.
by pearljamfan80 on Oct 12, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Newton was actually a sought after prospect. The Ducks won a race that involved a couple of teams. And yeah, 2/3 of our top line on the Cup winning team was college kids that McNab found. I’d go so far as to say that the problem can go beyond college students and into guys who get traded here or are pursued as free agents. Who wants to play for a team that asks you to change who you are as a player?
How bout trying to force Steve Eminger or Nick Boyton into top 4 roles? I feel this is a symptom of Carlyle trying to hammer a square peg into a circle hole. Or Morrison, I remember him openly talking about our system and how he felt it was too limiting, too set. Now it could speak to the players coach-ability. We can likely assume the coaches know more about what a player needs to succeed in the NHL then a young kid who has gotten by throughout his junior career on his offensive talent just because he was better than the other guy. Players have to adapt their game to make it in the NHL all the time. Especially the less skilled ones. It makes a lot more sense to do that when a player is young and doesn’t have a bunch of NHL experience telling him to do something else.
I think coachability is definitely a concern, and it is the clear counter argument to this situation. I think you are also right to look at Carlyle as a culprit. I think he has an idea of the type of defensemen that he likes and maybe tries to get everyone to play that way. But all of that goes back to the GM: get the players for the coach’s system, or get a coach who will play the system you want.
I think only time will tell. If Colorado really lets Newton develop those offensive talents and he makes it to the NHL, then we’ll know whether it was Newton or the Ducks demands.
i’m guessing the ducks told him not to suck, and he couldn’t do that. Every time I saw him play he looked really, really bad. Ducks told him after training camp they weren’t sure if he’d go to Syracuse or Elmira. If he turns out to be a great player and plays in the nhl more power to him, but what he’s shown so far wasn’t good enough.
by dontmesswiththestache on Oct 12, 2011 4:13 PM PDT reply actions
He’s a Billy Beane. He has all the tools, but maybe couldn’t figure out how to put it all togehter. I watched him in camp too, the kid can shoot the puck, heavy slap shots, wrist shots through traffic. I saw him throw the puck at the net every way possible. I’ll admit he sometimes got lost in his end, but he also had a great first pass. If he can’t read coverage, that’s an insurmountable problem, but guys can learn lots of different ways to be responsible in their own end that don’t involve using the body. Just because a guy is 6’3" doesn’t mean he can play like it.
I think half a year in the AHL is too soon to give up on a guy who was marginally coveted out of Northeastern.
I wouldn’t have understood that Billy Beane reference if I didn’t see Moneyball. I’ve really got to expand my view of sports
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
Im not sure how much weight you would put into a recently traded players comments. The assessment on this website was that he was brilliant offensively, which helped to overlook his defensive flaws. So not news.
We’ll likely never know what the real story is, but i assume the coach to player conversations probably revolved around being responsible in his own end, and minimising his defensive lapses. Perhaps he couldnt understand how to do both at once, but thats the players fault not the coaches.
I would also argue that this coaching staff has shown the ability to develop youth (ok more forwards than backs), in particular fowler. his defensive game was knocked in junior, was not great last year…however looked stronger as the year went on, and looks better thus far this year. Sibsa is another, and maybe a better comparison as he is not an elite skill set (despite the wraps on him) but a very good player (potentially). The handling of him over the past year and seen him develop dramatically in particular his defensive (physical) side.
I guess all im saying is that players should learn to not talk…at least not as far as burning bridges. I hope that he does realise his potential and develop into a nhl player, but at present he is far from that. The move which was made wasnt a bad one, it basically moved a couple assets to new environments where they could hopefully better themselves. The new guy by all accounts is super fast (is murray developing an identity here?-lots of speedy guys coming), and hopefully finds a spot somewhere down the track.
My background is critical rhetoric, so I put slot of stake in what ostricized people have to say. Again, I think Newton’s problem was that the team wanted a physical game from him that he simply didn’t have.
There are all kinds of players and they succeed in different environments. My point is that if you continually ask guys to play roles with which they are either uncomfortable or for which they are not suited. You will eventually have a problem.
by Daniel AC on Oct 13, 2011 8:23 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Something doesn’t add up, why would the Ducks bring in Cumiskey, an undersized defenseman who doesn’t have much of a physical game to replace Newton if the reason they got rid of him in the first place was because he wasn’t physical enough? There has to be more to this, it seems Newton just doesn’t have the necessary tools to make the big club and Murray pulled the trigger while Newton still has some value on the market.
I agree that it doesn’t add up, but I’ve never expected Murray to make sense. It could be an instance where, Cumiskey has more experience, and Murray was going back to his old habit of favoring the GP stat.
I think you’re trying to read between the tea leaves to find the winning lotto numbers Daniel.
I don’t see any smoke. i see a guy with some potential that’s butt hurt because he got knocked down a peg after an NHL organization told him they don’t think he’s NHL material. Fuck, the guy talks about himself in 3rd person. Sounds like a pretentious little bastard who thought he was the shit after being talked up by a bunch of scouts fighting over him.
"Whenever I’m suffering from insomnia, I just look at a picture of a Toyota Camry and I’m straight off."
I tend to believe that the answer in the middle is the closest to the truth. I’d argue that going to the media was the act of a “butt hurt” player, but what he tells the media is most likely a direct reflection of how he feels he was treated by the organization. More importantly, he’s expressing a sentiment, one of misuse of talents, that has been expressed by other players who have left our organization, like Whitney. I think you’re oversimplifying the situation.
I think…
…players think they play a certain way. They (We) all want to be all stars. Goal scorers. The stars of the team.
But… coaches fill a hole. If they want a top 4 Dman, they’ll find one if obviously you’re not it. But if you keep thinking, insisting that you are a top 4 D, and keep getting overlooked, it’s more likely the fact that you probably just aren’t. Or at least are not, yet.
It’s about perception. Same thing with Whitney (forgot who brough him up). The team wanted him to play a certain way, but he just didn’t fit the plug the coaches wanted him to fill. One play perceives their skill level at a certain level, but coaches see it at a different level. And… even if you do have a particular skill set… say he actually is a top 4 Dman (refering to Newton) but if the team already feels they got the top 4 Dman they want, then he’s just an extra piece. Traid bait, if you will. Granted, brining back Cumisky doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either, but you know how GM’s are. They call in favors for each other. Maybe he’s just doing the other GM a favor….
Fuck, the guy talks about himself in 3rd person. Sounds like a pretentious little bastard who thought he was the shit after being talked up by a bunch of scouts fighting over him.
My thoughts precisely. I had to read that part of the article a couple times because I thought it had to be an error.
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
Dismissing someone for speaking in the third person, especially without knowing his rationale, is equally pretentious.
by Daniel AC on Oct 14, 2011 6:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I entirely disagree.
There was no dismissal. It was merely an attempt to interpret the tone and intention of one statement. To claim that either Morbo or I was dismissing him and/or his statement(S) based on the notion that we interpreted his attitude as pretentious for referring himself in the third person is, well, outlandish.
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
i wasn’t dismissing him because he spoke in the 3rd person. I was calling him a self absorbed d-bag for speaking about himself in the 3rd person.
I was dismissing his “complaint” and “rationale” because the guy is bad mouthing an organization that just cut him for a bag of pucks. Needless to say, he’s not very good in the self esteem dept right now. Not the first time a guy has aired his sour grapes about the team that just cut him, not the last time. I don’t put very much value in guys talking shit about their former employers, whether they are aspiring professional hockey players or garbage men.
"Whenever I’m suffering from insomnia, I just look at a picture of a Toyota Camry and I’m straight off."
The argument being made is that what he has to say isn’t important, because he’s a "self absorbed d-bag, or pretentious or what have you. No matter how you want to look at it, both of you are saying that what the guy has to say isn’t relevant because he referred to himself in the third person.
I don't think that at all
I just think people sound pretentious when they refer to themselves in the third person. Isn’t that a fair observation?
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
Not always. Sometimes people become accustomed to seeing themselves out of context as a commodity or some other thing. I think it’s entirely possible that Jake was referring to himself in the third person to identify the organization’s idea of what “Jake Newton”, the player they signed, was supposed to be.
It is a bit of a confusing move since I felt like the acquisition of Bryan Rodney was supposed to sure-up the offensive defenseman role in Syracuse. Not to mention that we already have Justin Schultz and Sami Vaatenen developing still as well. I guess the “Defensive Prospect Shake-up” continues (Brett Festerling, Brendan Mikkelson, Mark Mitera, Scott Valentine, and now Newton).
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