Aaron Ward and Joffrey Lupul Add Fire to "Fire Carlyle"
Yes yes, the Ducks aren't very good. They're bad. This isn't a news flash to anyone. A change needs to come in order for things to turn around. It's not a question of when it will happen, but of whom it will happen to. We've gone over this before, debated to exhaustion. We've made our speculations, tossed about our fantasy trade ideas and I've even gone as far as to completely dismantle the lines and pairings.
Ultimately we all know it comes down to one question: who is getting the shaft? There are those who want simple changes, like Ryan Getzlaf stripped of his Captaincy, and others who are in favor of moving big names like Bobby Ryan. Then there are the hoards of fans who's interest lie in removing those in charge such as Bob Murray and/or Randy Carlyle. Sign me up for removing Carlyle ASAP. This isn't a new development in my book, I've been ready to give Carlyle his walking papers for years now. I don't know, maybe it had something to do with the continuing history of bad starts followed by early playoff exits.
Recently, Joffrey Lupul spoke out against his former coach with some unsavory words. Many saw it as bitter spewed commentary by the two-time former Duck who is looking fabulous in his new home in Toronto. Quite honestly, I don't give a tiny rats-ass about what Lupul is doing in Toronto. I can't begin to waste energy hating on a trade that is said and done, especially when the team I'm rooting for looks so terribly awful. I don't have time for bitter, I'm too busy being pissed off. But that's what this is all about, right? How bitter and upset Lupul is because he had to move away from sunny Southern California to cold Toronto Canada. So take his harsh commentary on Carlyle as you wish, but I read it as a glorious and simple "point to the argument". Randy Carlyle is a jerk...and I'm paraphrasing that nicely.
Now, for many of us, this isn't news. We've all heard enough in the way of stories from past players or rumors of reasons why players were traded from the team. But Lupul's words were the "facts" that we were all looking for. Sure, they are simply a one sided account of what would come down to a bit of a he-said he-said debate, but ultimately it was something for fans to point to and say, "I KNEW IT!" (yes, I did that.)
And then Aaron Ward happened. Does anyone have that guys phone number? I'd love to give that guy a hug and a good game tap if possible. His words on TSN last night may have been most damaging to any reputation Carlyle may have been holding fast to. Now I understand that coaches aren't everyone's "friend", and by no means do I expect them to be, but to hear a former player say something such as, "he sucked the life and fun out of the game" speaks volumes. When Ward claimed that Carlyle has lost his team, it was all I could do to contain myself from throwing a fist pump into the air. Lost this team?!? No kidding! Carlyle and this "team" haven't been on the same page for a long time now. At the very least in the 2011-12 season. Many of us would point to season starts ever since 2007 as evidence. Somehow the team, with or without Carlyle's assistance, manages to pull through. We turn our focus to a mini playoff run and hope that the next year starts better than the last. It doesn't and the vicious cycle continues.
Finally there are former players speaking out about their ex-coach. They're pointing the fingers we'd all love to point ourselves if we had the solid proof. And this is it! This is the proof. It is CLEAR the life of hockey has been sucked dry from this Anaheim roster, and thanks to both Lupul and Ward, we have proof as to why that is. Randy Carlyle. Bob Murray has an option to allow this to fall on deaf ears, or he can do something about it. The fact of the matter is, we now know better. As an Anaheim fan base, as NHL fans, we all know what the real Carlyle is like behind closed doors.
Consider this, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf and Bobby Ryan have all played under Carlyle for their entire NHL career. They know how he works. They've heard his threats. They know his game. They know how to play their role. If anything, these guys might be the ones to most benefit from a coaching change (aside from the poor younglings who know no better and are already terrified). They need someone with new rules to obey, new threats to consider. These guys are like teenagers who know how to say the right things to get what they need or want. They need new parents with new rules and new regulations. Someone to slap the rebellious teen from their attitudes.
Most importantly, the Ducks team needs a unifier. Someone to bring this group back together under one roof. Because while I'm definitely signed up for team "fire Carlyle" I'm miles away from joining the "trade Bobby Ryan" picket line. No matter what, the storm is brewing in Oil Country Anaheim, and when it hits the fan, things will fly. Let's just hope no one gets a barstool, unless it's Carlyle that is.
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Excellent post. GO Ward and Loops! I thought we couldn’t afford to get another coach. How does it work if a coach just signed a 3 year contract? If they are fired, is the team still responsible to pay him for the remainder of the contract?
I’ll be honest, I’m not at all certain how the money issue works. But if it means skimping for a few years to pay for the obvious mistake in extending the guy, so be it.
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 11:18 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
A contract is a contract. I would be hard pressed to believe that the Ducks were able to negotiate a clause that says “if we fire you, you won’t get paid.” he’ll get his money no matter what. That’s why, I think, Samueli hasn’t pulled the trigger.
"I'm not a lady. I'm a DUCK!" - Connie Moreau, D2: Mighty Ducks
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by Jen Neale on Nov 30, 2011 1:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Murray can’t fire Carlyle. If he did it would call into question his abilities. Firing a coach you just extended, is a lot like trading a player you just signed as a free agent. Why’d you sign him if he wasn’t good?
I think firing Carlyle undermines Murray’s authority as GM. I hate to say it, but Murray is going to grind this team into dust the way he did the Blackhawks.
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 11:33 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Men and their egos. I really hope that comments like these from ex-players make Murray at least question the possibility that keeping Carlyle makes him look worse than firing a coach he just showered with an extension.
I agree, Murray doesn’t want to look like the fool…but I think these comments make him look like a fool no matter what he does or doesn’t do. Maybe they’ve given him an out. An easy escape.
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 11:38 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Really? Don’t you think it just makes him look out of touch, as if he doesn’t really know who his coach is?
I think he can’t fire Carlyle because if he does, it might not look like his decision.
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 11:44 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
HAHAHAHA! The idiot already looks out of touch!
I wouldn’t argue a package deal here either. They’re both directly/indirectly an issue. Carlyle just seems the obvious and the first to be put on the chopping block.
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 11:50 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yeah, the coach always goes first. I’m just saying that Murray wants to save his job, and to do that he might favor a trade over firing Carlyle, because firing Carlyle makes him look inept. Right now, he can say those are disgruntled players. He doesn’t want to lose that.
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 12:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You’re right and yet the disastrous trade might make his case worse. He would be too stupid to see that.
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 12:11 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I’m all in if Murray wants to make a legit trade instead of fire RC. But if he wants to make a stupid trade, while not firing Carlyle, then I’ll have a big problem.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
I first want to say, I’m more trying to predict how Murray will act than I am expressing my opinion of what I want.
If there’s a good trade, I want that. If there’s not, maybe fire Carlyle. Ideally, the Samuelis reize Murray’s an idiot.
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 1:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Don't the recent comments about Carlyle
At least make you question how much of this is Carlyle’s fault vs. Murray’s fault? There’s a reason why people like Aaron Ward are saying it would be a mistake to break up this team. There are good players here and a good core. That they’re being misused is the coach’s fault.
by PhantomPretender on Nov 30, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Not really. The coach resides in a rare position of privilege. The only threat to his power is the GM. I will always see any problem with Carlyle as Murray’s fault. Coaches have a way they want to do things. It’s the GM’s job to make sure that way is what the team needs.
I guess what I’m saying is thy if there was a problem with Carlyle, Murray should have done something about it. Carlyle has a system that he wants to enforce. Who’s job is it tostop him if it’s not working?
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 1:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well…with that being said, I would HOPE that Carlyle is somewhat smarter than that. Smart enough, anyway, to look at what he has been given and say, what do I do with this lot and how can I make the best of it? Not try to make these players into something they are not. Example, Bobby at Center. Fact of the matter is, if Carlyle can’t be a flexible coach and learn how to embrace players and change up his own system…then I would hope the GM is the next smartest guy to say, hey, this isn’t working and make that change.
It might just be that A) Carlyle isn’t smart and B) Neither is Murray.
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 2:09 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Well, all things considered…Murray has not really provided Carlyle with much to work with.
THe core is there but Murray wanted the team to get younger and I think he’s gambling on too many youngsters. It may be Carlyl’es fault for not utilizing the tools he’s provided but it’s not like the Capitals situation where you have an all-star line up and the coach has just lost his team.
Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Bobby Ryan, Teemu Selanne. Crap lineup for sure, not a star in sight. ;) but true, Murray didn’t have a hand in any of that. His record isn’t the best.
Regardless…we agree there is an issue up top. Someone…or both, need to go.
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 3:01 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I’m not so sure Murray is the one to go. Don’t forget, when Burke was here, he relied heavily on his assistant GM(s) to help him with his ‘plan’. Same thing with Nonis in Toronto now. So Murray has had more than 2 and a half years of being a GM. Some could say his influence has dated all the way back to 2005 when he was hired as the Senior VP of Hockey Ops.
I think the problem really is Carlyle, and you hit it on the head with your piece SK.
Don't shake the foundation.
Fire Carlyle!
Well…ok then. :)
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 3:20 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I’m sorry, but the GM is the boss and the boss needs to take responsibility. If I want a youth movement and my coach isn’t good with youngsters, I tell him to adapt. If he doesn’t, and I continue to let him coach, then it’s my fault. Carlyle is the scapegoat for a GM who continued to get him the wrong players and failed to recognize that the coach wasn’t working.
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 4:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree
This has been something only ownership can fix now!
I'll drive to the TSN studios right now...
And shake Aaron Ward’s hand. Tell him Anaheim loves him, and to say more about Carlyle.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
HockeyBreak just tweeted....
“Anaheim Ducks coach, Randy Carlyle spoke to Bobby Ryan this morning about trade rumours, essentially, he told him to, “Deal with it”.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
See, before the Ward/Lupul comments I might have said…“no way…”, but now, I can totally hear a comment like that being possible.
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DUCKSandPUCKS.com; contributor - Anaheim Calling
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 12:08 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Some of the stuff coming out about RC is crazy. Never imagined this stuff would be said.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
I’m not. RC is a hardass. You can tell simply by attending practice. Also, when noticing things on the bench. How many times have you seen RC lean over and talk to one of the players or tap him on the shoulder, anything! We need a players coach.
by ScottyKnows on Nov 30, 2011 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve never been to Ducks practice, so I wouldn’t know.
But yeah, I definitely agree we need a players coach to help this young roster develop. Carlyle is honestly the last thing we need. He’s the guy that helps us bridge the gap between playoff team and Cup contender.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Bobby Ryan trade post of the day:
http://www.queencitysports.net/the-bobby-ryan-to-buffalo-rumors-what-ive-been-told-and-what-i-think/
Encouraging stuff in there regarding potential deals with New York and Buffalo.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Did I miss Bobby’s 50-goal season in Anaheim?
GO DUCKS!!!
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by SK eleven on Nov 30, 2011 12:56 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
This whole thing is just depressing. We simply cannot trade ryan. I really think if a new system came in he could seriously thrive. Picture this: we trade him to the east and he plays amazing. We already know that’s going to happen. Why? Because he is going to a new team and coach that will let him do the things that he likes to do. Instead of being utterly idiotic, why not just bring in one of these coaches to anaheim? bob murray- get your head out of your ass, go find your friend samueli, and fire the shit out of carlyle. I’m over this unnecessary drama.
This, this, this and this.
Everything about your post is true dkk. If Ryan is fired and he goes to Buffalo, New York, Philly, Boston, etc. he will thrive. The guy wasn’t picked #2 overall behind Crosby for nothing. And above that, in interviews you can tell he has “that thing”. You just know he is going to be a brilliant player one day, and I think I speak for all of us when I say he should be doing it in black, orange and gold.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
*traded, not fired
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
There are no guarantees for the future, and if Murray gets his asking price, the deal could turn this season around as well as increase depth doing forward. Isn’t that something we should at least consider.
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 1:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If we’re going to consider this then we at least have to do the same with getzlaf. We all know that he has been the real problem when it comes to the players. I’m sick of him getting away with his subpar play. Yes, we’re light on centers, but it’s hard to argue that he’s doing more to help the team than bobby.
I’m in the pro-Getzlaf camp (if that makes sense). As I posted in the Truthiness story, Getzlaf should be the one who is untouchable. I feel like he can re-gain that spark, it’s just a matter of how. It’s incredibly hard to replace a centre as good as he is.
Don't shake the foundation.
Fire Carlyle!
I agree
As much as Getz irritates me sometimes, he and Corey Perry have a near-telepathic chemistry (when they’re playing well) that will be hard to replace. I still wish he was better at the dot, though. Every elite center should know how to win draws.
Contributor - Anaheim Calling
by light_the_lamp on Nov 30, 2011 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
I would also like him to be better defensively. I don’t think our top center should be at a -13 (tied with Fowler for the worst on the team).
He was amazing during the ’07 cup run, but has steadily declined since then. Whatever it takes to light a fire under his rear needs to be done.
Remember, amateurs built the ark • Professionals built the Titanic
Is Bobby Ryan the problem? It seems Getzlaf’s dropoff, by your reckoning, coincides with him being stuck with Bobby on the left side.
by Daniel AC on Nov 30, 2011 4:19 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
do you really think this season can be turned around? at this point is it not better planning for next year? and that being the case gunning for draft picks. doom and gloom i know, but they may have to win ALOT to make hte playoffs.
by BennyLightning on Nov 30, 2011 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
I think we should really consider how this news may affect Murrays ability (or lack of) to sign FAs in the off season. It wont matter if we have 15 mill of internal cap if we have to overpay significantly just to get players to sign. furthur handcuffing Murray. On top of that, if monetary losses look anything like the on ice losses that cap will diminish as well. it might cost more not to replace Cralyle in that regard.
by DavidBL on Nov 30, 2011 5:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
“They need someone with new rules to obey, new threats to consider. These guys are like teenagers who know how to say the right things to get what they need or want. They need new parents with new rules and new regulations. Someone to slap the rebellious teen from their attitudes.”
This might be the worst analogy I’ve read. There’s the rather insulting and incredibly patronizing notion that adult professional athletes are essentially rebellious teenagers, which is bad. Then there’s the further suggestion that the solution to a rebellious teenager is a new parent.
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by Jonathan Willis on Dec 1, 2011 12:10 AM PST reply actions

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