Stella Was a Diver and She Was Always Down
ARTHUR:
I don't take Bob Murray's recent "We have to start diving" comments to the OC Register seriously. Mostly because his final quote in the article notes that his scouts are currently in Europe, and maybe he should ask them to bring him back some [Euro] divers. Now that he's managing the first Murray-roster ever to make the playoffs, you'd think he'd realize it isn't 1997.
The officiating in the Ducks/Predators series has been frustrating, for sure, and for both clubs. Still, let's go to the statistics. Behind The Net tracks penalties drawn per 60 minutes at 5 on 5 for the 2010-11 campaign.
Through 82 games played, Jerred Smithson is an impressive 1.4. The Vlade Divac of hockey, he just may be. But, through 82 games played, Bobby Ryan and Corey Perry are 1.3 and 1.2 respectively. Not bad. If you saw that stat and immediately started saying that Perry and Ryan are power forwards that earn their penalties with pressure and never ever ever (ever-EVER?) dive, then please keep your strongly-worded letters short-- that will give me time to read Robby's.
The Predators' numbers are generally impressive. Jordin Tootoo is 1.9 through 54 games, Hornqvist 1.4 through 79 games, Erat 1.1 through 64 games and Joel Ward 0.9 through 80 games. That's five guys-- all double-digit minutes per game guys --that can maybe get Nashville a key penalty in this series, though Tootoo, Smithson and Ward also take about a penalty per 60 minutes.
The Ducks counter with Ryan, Perry, and Jason Blake with 1.7 in 76 games played. Brad Winchester draws 1.6 and Jarko Ruutu 0.8, but they take 1.4 and 1.7 respectively and aren't double digit minutes guys for Anaheim, nor were they for their prior clubs.
Ultimately, if someone is playing tight defense on you and you feel a stick at your skate, between your legs, on your hands, at your shoulders, then it's completely up to you if you want to dive. Does it make you less of a man if you do? Do you die a little inside? Do the terrorists win? These are questions I can't answer. However, a referee watching the exchange knows that that stick shouldn't be there, and if he gets the impression that it has impeded you in some way, then he can call a penalty.
And as a GM, if your team isn't getting the calls you think they should, and the other team is getting calls you think they shouldn't, you can lobby the referees, imply that they're being hoodwinked by Euro divers and that maybe if you had some 'smarter' (read less manly) divers on your team, you'd have the advantage in the series. It's a strategy . . . y'know, like diving.
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Little late to the party?
I’m guessing you had a busy day.
On the Preds SBN site, they are having their fun with this quote. The thread entails everything you’d expect to hear from a club that thinks the Ducks are the dirtiest club in the league and Perry is the dirtiest player in the league.
I’m glad Murray spoke out. It needed to be said. I can’t tell you how many times I said “What a fucking dive” while watching the last game. Do I want the Ducks to start diving? No. But that’s only because they’ll be called for it (unlike Smithson, Tootoo etc.).
It’s going to be a tough pill to swallow if the series continues with this officiating and the Ducks don’t come out of this series with the last W.
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
I wrote a post when I had time.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Apr 19, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Meh...
a club that thinks the Ducks are the dirtiest club in the league and Perry is the dirtiest player in the league.
You’ve gotten your facts somewhat mixed up here. I can safely say that most Preds fans wouldn’t rank Anaheim in the top 5 dirtiest clubs, nor would anyone I know rank Perry in the top 10 dirtiest players.
No one in Nashville likes Perry, but that’s because he’s an annoying pest who scores a lot. Not a goon, a pest. Most of us understand the difference, I promise. Perry is getting some attention for stomping on Blum, true, but few are even comparing him to the generally accepted top tier of dirty players (Avery, Cooke, etc.) He’s been suspended a grand total of once.
What I do think you have correct is this: I don’t think any Preds fan thinks “Barstool Bob” Murray is a classy individual at this point in time. Comic relief, maybe.
I entered ten puns in a contest, hoping one of them would win. Sadly, no pun in ten did.
by Smashvillain on Apr 20, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, I meant Ryan. :/ Proofreading fail…
I entered ten puns in a contest, hoping one of them would win. Sadly, no pun in ten did.
by Smashvillain on Apr 20, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s not classy because he gets fed up and opens his mouth about what’s been going on? I’m not sure how telling the truth to the media isn’t classy, but ok. All he said was that you guys are using an effective tactic. Hell, you could take it as a compliment if you want. If you don’t, then that’s your problem, not his.
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
Pred Louganis
I would argue that the penalties drawn per 60 minutes is the wrong direction to go in this case; especially when you compare Perry and Ryan to the likes of Smithson and Tootoo. No, I am not going to fall into the trap of saying Perry and Ryan don’t dive or embellish to get a call once in awhile, but I will say that the majority of the calls they draw are either because they are wearing down the D or to prevent a scoring chance. Bottomline, Perry and Ryan are more often in a position to force penalties than Tootoo or Smithson. Their job is to score, Tootoo’s job is to agitate.
That said, we have our instigators that serve the same purpose, despite what Murray says to the contrary. We have all seen Rutuu stick his chin out, feign tripping, and other antics that grab the zebras attention. I guess the argument is the degree to which the Ducks employ these tactics then.
For me, I think the argument that should be made to the team by our GM is that refs tend to favor the initatior. Be aggressive. Keep your feet moving, initiate the contact, bring the pressure; all of these things tend to draw far more penalties than a well placed prat fall.
Not a new fan, and I am not sure what you are saying is not the case.
I agree that since Burke arrived, the Ducks have created a culture that abhors diving and favors grit/intimidation. BTW, I love that.
I also agree that the Ducks do not get the benefit of the doubt. I try to remove my fan goggles when watching the games, but it is hard to deny the amount of times the Ducks draw the short end from the zebras.
Finally, the point I was trying to make is that I feel the GMs words were misplaced. Maybe, he was speaking from frustration; perhaps this was the verbal equivalent of chucking a barstool. Still, the Ducks play better when they are the agressor, and the refs usually favor the initator and punish the retaliator. I think Selanne’s post-game rant was far better placed and his words will prove more effective.
by brutal1 on Apr 19, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
verbal equivalent of chucking a barstool
Totally agree with that. Maybe the Ducks should set that up outside the arena for Game 5. They could have a “throw a barstool at a referee” activity.
My point is that he Ducks don’t get the benefit even if they work hard. It just one of those things. The refs, or league, or whoever sees us as dirty and it’s hard to get calls even when we are the aggressors.
by Daniel AC on Apr 19, 2011 11:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Ouch :)
I’m surprised bobby draws that many penalties, to be honest. Anyone that’s ever seen him randomly tumble into the boards would know skating and balance aren’t his best talents.
I just wish you would use your platform for good, like finding video evidence of an egregious play in every game and sending it to the league offices for review.
by PhantomPretender on Apr 19, 2011 8:13 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I thought Murray’s comments were funny. I like the part when he said, "They’re over in Europe right now. They’re over there in a tournament. And I’m going to say bring me back some divers. Because we’re obviously not with the program." haha, that one winchester high stick did seem like the guy faked it, and there were a lot of soft calls in this series. I think he is mainly saying this, hoping that the next game, the refs let them play more.
Late to the party, indeed.
Preds blog has nearly 500 comments on this subject already, many from ducks fans (more posting over there than on their own boards). i think you guys are getting carried away with all the diving accusations. if the team was instructed to act that way, i honestly believe Blum woulda flopped around after getting his foot stomped or Rinne would have floundered around holding his groin after the stickwork after the buzzer. Preds are playing their game for the most part, slow down the opposition and capitalize on their mistakes. let’s all take off our tin-foil hats and talk about how game 4 may unfold, unless you guys are too busy watching the X-Files reruns.
We have to come out with that fire that Teemu lit under our ass burning like no other. I see this game as a must win. In my mind, we’re getting bottled up in the neutral zone and at their blueline. They’re not letting us get speed and when we dump it, everyone has been standing around or cruising, causing us to not get to the puck first. If we’re going to dump and chase, we have to do the whole chase part of it. In my mind, we’re not winning that battle to that puck. They get possession of it just as we’re getting setup in the zone then we just follow them back out. Times when we’re not getting bottled up is where we’re having success. Our passing has let a lot to be desired this series too which is really hurting us. We’re not making the passes we need to make in order to succeed.
Just how I see it though. :)
Diving or not
There were a few minutes there right before Sbisa got called for touching whoever dived lol where Selanne, Koivu and Blake were getting cross checks to the back like there was no tomorrow…in Nashville’s zone. At least one of those cross checks could have been called a roughing or boarding call as each of those guys at one point was on his back thanks to a sweet cross check from a Pred.
Then the puck goes the other way and Sbisa touches some dude while he’s skating to his position and they get a whistle AND Erat puts one in the back of the net.
That my friends is telling me the officiating is off. Does anyone else remember this sequence? Or was it just me?
No, it’s not just you. Selanne was getting cross checked all game, nothing gets called. But if an Anaheim player gives a Pred a mean look it’s time for a Nashville power play.
The biggest Ducks fan in Kansas
by Shackleford on Apr 19, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think the worst penalty was the call on Shane O'Brien...
That led to our first goal. But yes, I agree that the officiating is definitely “off” in this series.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Well even our announcers were saying that one was bad and it was a “make up call”. I just kep thinking make up for what? The stick marks up and down Koivu, Blake and Selanne’s backs?
Maybe..
But at the same time, we Ducks fans are always the ones preaching that playoff hockey is rough hockey. So when Pronger was doing those kind of things (cross-checks), we always defended him, and anyone who also got away with those same actions.
The problem with the officiating isn’t just missing stuff on both ends, but not calling the right stuff and calling the wrong stuff. Tomorrow, the refs need to look out for actual penalties on both ends, and then nobody will complain. If we can win when the reffing is impartial to either the Preds and Ducks, then I can be happy.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Im ok with letting the crosschecking stuff go, but ref’s need to let it go both ways, and that’s not happening, stuff that the Ducks are getting penalized for, like Sbisa’s roughing penalty, are not being called when the Preds do the exact same thing, if they call it tight or loose it doesnt make a difference to me as long as they stay consistant.
I..
Also want consistency more than anything. Not just here, but in all series. It not only makes it all much more watchable, but it at least allows me to judge teams based on talents alone (with none of that outside stuff coming into the equation).
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
To answer your question Daniel, yes, the terrorists win. They also win every time dancing with the stars is on television.
I wrote this (I being Arthur) not Daniel.
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Apr 19, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
diving isn't whats gonna make or break this series
If the rest of the team decides to work HALF as hard as selanne and emery have then we will have a very legitimate chance of winning this series
...
and im glad it was murray sayin all that and not carlyle because coaches shouldnt be portraying that (see bruce boudreau)
Yea, I think he mainly said it so the Nashville players might think twice before going down easily and the NHL refs look more carefully when calling penalties. I don’t really think our coaching staff or players will be paying attention to this at all.
I really don’t think the refs are going to pay attention to this either, when is the last time any of them gave a damn about calling a fair game involving Anaheim? If anything they will take it as Murray taunting them and call even more questionable penalties against us while letting Nashville get away with something that puts us on the PK.
The biggest Ducks fan in Kansas
Yup.
Agreed with the part about the refs. It’s playoff time, and everyone is paying attention to everyone, so I’m sure the refs have heard what Murray has said and will look out for it.
Amount of dives called next game (both teams combined):
Over/Under: 1.5
Anyone wanna give me a guess?
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Btw, Arthur...
Love the Divac reference!
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Hiller just got sent back to Anaheim with reoccuring vertigo symptoms, seems like he’s done for the year…poor bastard goes from one of the Vezina front runners to not knowing when he’ll play again, can’t imagine how he must feel right now.
Agreed..
Hopefully he can just live a normal life again, never mind becoming a great tendy. Feel so bad for the guy.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
he needs real rest...
the ducks just need to tell him hes done for the season…everybody knows he carried us for over half the season and he shouldn’t be disappointed no matter what happens without us…but I dont think he is going to adequately be able to heal and figure out whats wrong with himself while trying to repeatedly get back in the game right now..its terrible to see but i’d rather stick it out with emery and ellis this postseason good or bad and have a healthy hiller come september/october
I have to agree with earlier posts. I don’t care if they call every damn thing or if they let ’em play, just call it the same to both sides.
by pearljamfan80 on Apr 19, 2011 3:38 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just looked through our 4 games against Nashville in the regular season...
And sure enough, Teemu had the most points and was the most consistent. Go figure.
We lost two and won two, so I guess that means we need more offense from other players? Can’t really come to a conclusion from these stats…
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
did you just say the 2 teams split the season series 2-2? because i’m pretty sure the preds won it 3-1. maybe i misread your comment.
Oh yeah, my bad..
I got two caught up in the stats… judging by the performance in the last game (Getzlaf playmaker, etc.) I thought we had won that one
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
Haha..
Just looked at your comment and said, “WTF is he talking about…” and then I remembered.
Yes, that’s the game. But I was only really looking at final scores/box scores, so the game in it’s entirety didn’t pop into my head.
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
we had upgraded our upper bowl seats to lower for that game and it was a wild one for sure! you should have seen the look on my face when suter hackey-sack kicked that goal in behind rinne. priceless.
Haha..
That was with like 30 seconds left if I remember correctly (and a lot of people were headed towards the exits). And then all the air came out of the building!
"That might've been a little push, but that was a major flop. That would make Vlade Divac very proud." - Jerry Reynolds
New NBC/Versus deal . . .
Even better news for NHL fans in the U.S.: This deal marks the first-ever national distribution of all Stanley Cup Playoffs games, including, for the first time, exclusive coverage starting with the League conference semifinals. Dick Ebersol, chairman of the NBC Sports Group, told assembled media at NHL offices in New York (plus others on a conference call) that every postseason game will be broadcast in entirety on NBC, Versus or “a major NBC Universal national cable channel.”
Isn’t that nice.
CALIFORNIA ANGELS . . . ANAHEIM DUCKS . . . CALIFORNIA GOLDEN BEARS
Interpol
Nice reference, Arthur. Funny enough, I was just listening to this album yesterday and forgot how much Paul Banks has evolved from his Ian Curtis mimicking on Turn On The Bright Lights.
Managing editor of From The Rink
www.fromtherink.com
I haven’t enjoyed the last two albums. I actually miss the days when there was quality mimicking of both Curtis and Sumner
by Arthur from Anaheim Calling on Apr 20, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Our Love To Admire is very hit and miss. A few good songs on there but a lot of throwaway.
The self-titled new one took a while but now I really like it. It probably helps that my wife has been playing it non-stop since its release, so I’m kind of forced to start liking it.
Managing editor of From The Rink
www.fromtherink.com

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