Plan C
by cal-S- on Aug 13, 2011 3:31 PM PDT
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Print"Yes, there’s a Plan B. We’d have to do some things that I don’t want to discuss right now... but we’d have to look at building the team a different way... That time is going to come. Of course, we talk about it."
Surely, many of you have read these recent comments by Ducks' GM Bob Murray regarding the prospects of a 2011-2012 Anaheim Ducks Team without future Hall of Famer, Teemu Selanne, and surely, just as many of you have feared to wonder too much about such prospects as we all wait optimistic about the chances of seeing the Finnish Flash's return to the Pond. However, with the anxiety of anticipation in full swing, I thought it might be fun to formulate our own "Plan B." But since Murray already made claim to that name, I figured our plan would most obviously be named "Plan C."
Intuition tells me that Bob and Randy (Carlyle), and all other Ducks' personnels involved in these types of matters, in all likelihood have already chatted at some length about this precise topic. Charting organizational depth on dry-erase boards, conferencing with scouts and coaches, debates in the depths of Ponda war rooms; It is very likely each step of the way a coach formulates which 20 players he might have suit up if he had to jot down a lineup each week. From this mindframe, I assumed the role of a coach having to "jot down" my lineup if the season started today.
The idea behind this exercise is really to see what we have now on the Ducks depth charts. I'll focus on the forwards here since we are discussing the hypothetical situation of a playing without the Great Fin. Here is the list of Ducks who will be competing for a spot on our Ducks this upcoming training camp:
| Name | Position | Shoots | Ht | Wt | Age |
| Mark Bell | LW | L | 6'4" | 220 | 31 |
| Matt Beleskey | LW | L | 6'0" | 204 | 23 |
| Jason Blake | LW | L | 5'10" | 190 | 37 |
| Nick Bonino | C | L | 6'1" | 186 | 23 |
| Josh Brittain | LW | L | 6'4" | 210 | 21 |
| Andrew Cogliano | C/LW | L | 5'10" | 188 | 24 |
| Nicolas Deschamps | C | L | 6'0" | 173 | 21 |
| Emerson Etem | LW | L | 6'0" | 190 | 19 |
| Ryan Getzlaf | C | R | 6'4" | 221 | 26 |
| Andrew Gordon | RW | R | 6'0" | 194 | 25 |
| Peter Holland | C | L | 6'2" | 185 | 20 |
| Jean-Francois Jacques | LW | L | 6'3" | 231 | 26 |
| Matt Kennedy | RW | R | 6'2" | 202 | 22 |
| Saku Koivu | C | L | 5'10" | 182 | 36 |
| Maxime Macenauer | C | L | 5'11" | 188 | 22 |
| Patrick Maroon | RW | L | 6'4" | 225 | 23 |
| Brian McGrattan | RW | R | 6'4" | 235 | 29 |
| Brandon McMillan | LW/RW/C | L | 5'11" | 188 | 21 |
| Kyle Palmieri | RW | R | 5'11" | 193 | 20 |
| George Parros | RW | R | 6'5" | 228 | 31 |
| Corey Perry | LW/RW | R | 6'3" | 212 | 26 |
| Bobby Ryan | LW/C | R | 6'2" | 209 | 24 |
| Richard Schofield | C | L | 6'2" | 197 | 24 |
| Dan Sexton | RW | R | 5'10" | 170 | 24 |
| Devante Smith-Pelly | RW | R | 6'0" | 211 |
19 |
Breaking it down further, the lack of depth is apparent. This is of course speaking in terms of NHL experience. Devante Smith-Pelly (or Devo) has been a phenom in St. Michael's, Andrew Gordon is one of the AHL's leading scorers, and we all know about Mr. Emerson Etem...
| LW | C | RW |
| Bobby Ryan | Ryan Getzlaf | Corey Perry |
| Jason Blake | Saku Koivu | Kyle Palmieri |
| Brandon McMillan | Andrew Cogliano | Devante Smith-Pelly |
| Matt Beleskey | Nick Bonino | George Parros |
| Emerson Etem | Nicolas Deschamps | Dan Sexton |
| Mark Bell | Richard Schofield | Patrick Maroon |
| Jean-Francois Jacques | Peter Holland | Andrew Gordon |
| Josh Brittain | Maxime Macenauer | Brian McGrattan |
| Matt Kennedy |
It would be tough for this current lineup to really make noise in such a stacked division. That said, here is one lineup I think would have a good combination of grit and speed throughout.
Etem- Getzlaf- Perry
Ryan- Koivu- Smith-Pelly
Cogliano- Bonino- Palmieri
Beleskey- McMillan- Parros
As Daniel has mentioned ad nauseam, the Ducks lack a true "checking" presence in their bottom 6. However, I do think that players like Bonino, McMillan, Koivu and Cogliano are sound two-way players. Additionally, the big three (RPG) have become much better defensively over the last year and this team, though not defensive in any certain terms, this team would be formitable and scrappy.
If you add in the fact that players like Blake, Bell, Patrick Maroon don't shy away from contact and a spark plug like Sexton can be inserted into a lineup at will. Scrappy. Ducks Hockey.
This wouldn't be the ideal situation, obviously, but I think this team would still have very good team speed. If this were the case, I foresee the Ducks' front office possibly sitting on their hands until the preseason or end of training camp to see just how far along players like Devo, Etem and Palmieri have come in their development. Though I have been skeptical in the pass of these two, I also see Beleskey and Bonino especially the latter having a pretty pronounced role on this team next season. I'd also like to see Carlyle sit Big George some 20 games so we can get a look at Patrick Maroon or J.F. Jacques. I would also not be surprised if Mark Bell makes the team out of camp.
Now I know this may seem like bad "magumbo" thinking ahead past Teemu's return, so I am now knocking on wood, crossing fingers, horseshoe, rabbit footing to combat these evil thoughts.
Thoughts???
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Ryan- Getzlaf- Perry
Blake- Koivu- Cogliano/Sexton
Cogliano/Sexton/Beleskey- McMillan- Palmieri/DSP/Etem
Beleskey/Jacques/Bell- Bonino- Parros
That depth chart is painful to look at. Honestly, I don’t see us making the playoffs next season if Selanne retires, unless Hiller is 100% healthy and just stands on his head all season long.
Side Note: I don’t see both DSP and Etem making the team. I can see maybe one or the other making our roster next season, but I just don’t think both will make the team.
We need more Boyntons.
Fire Carlye & Murray!
Speaking of things I do ad nauseum, how’d that depth chart get ugly? I will say this, the pain is only immediate. Honestly, if Selanne retires, I hope we have an awful year so we can draft in the top 3, then package that pick to get Weber. After next year, Etem, DSP and others will be ready. I’ll give Murray this, his scouting staff has done well these last two drafts.
My take on depth next year
DSP-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Koivu-Sexton
Blake :( -Cogs-McMillan
Beleskey-Bonino-Parros
I agree that Etem and DSP won’t both make it, and I think that DSP’s physical game gives him the edge.
by Daniel AC on Aug 13, 2011 7:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, I agree. We have a lot of young prospects that will be making a big impact in a year or two down the road. But I find it hard to fathom us being a competitive team in the western conference next season without Teemu.
Even if we were to pencil Selanne into our top six, our bottom six still has some question marks heading into camp. I could see someone like DSP or Etem making the roster out of camp and filling those question marks. However I don’t see either of them being able to come out of camp and fill Selanne’s skates next season.
Of course, we were able to fill Niedermayer’s skates and squeak into the playoffs last season, but Bob had most of the offseason to “plan” for his retirement and fowler fell from the sky into Murray’s lap. Maybe it is the sentimentalism speaking, but I feel as if Selanne has bigger skates to fill than Scott did.
Above ramblings aside, do you really think Murray has the “ability” or “insight” or "I can’t think of the proper word* to get someone like Weber?
We need more Boyntons.
Fire Carlye & Murray!
Yeah, I don’t. I don’t know why saying that is so bad, either. The guy won’t build a Cup contender because he’s shown he can make the big deal, he’s Jed Bartlett before Leo writes “Let Bartlett Be Bartlett” on that legal pad in the oval office. That’s just how it is.
by Daniel AC on Aug 13, 2011 8:12 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think people forget that we were supposed to finish well outside of the playoffs last year. No Scott, a terrible D even with him, no offense besides the top two lines, an unproven starting goaltender. And what did Murray do that offseason after missing the playoffs? He gets rid of Wiz, arguably one of our better Dmen, and signs Sutton and Lydman. Not exactly big or exciting moves.
Fast forward through the year: Fowler and Sbisa become regulars on the D, Lydman turns in a ridiculous performance, our O depth still sucked, Hiller was lights out, and the team looks like they might win the division. The Hiller gets hurt, along with Getzlaf, and the team still needs at least one more solid Dman. Murray goes out and gets Emery, Ellis and Beauchemin. The teams goes on a tear, even without their MVP (Hiller), and finishes 4th in the West.
This year all Murray had to do was worry about the third line. Again he doesn’t go after a big name, but rather gets a solid offensive C, and brings in pieces to help the young guys improve. I think we see the year start with a lineup like but knowing Randy it will change by the end of the first month:
Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry
McMillan-Cogs-Bell
Blake-Koivu-Sexton
Beleskey-Bonino-Parros
Selanne leaving would be a huge loss, but this team is still going to be competitive as long as they have the top line, Hiller, and Carlyle.
i think you do make some good points about filling Niedermayer’s skates. Though the experts had pegged Fowler as the next Scotty, how could have honestly predicted Fowler would take to the water the way he did in his very first year… I think we all know that Devo and Etem are pretty close to getting an audition with the big club, the question is just when and how good will they be at this level.
I think Daniels Line up is closer to what we’ll see. I still see Carlyle playing Blake on the second line over Sexton. Carlyle has always preferred vets. DSP IMO and Beleskey may swap places up and down the line up with DSP. Also we might see Ryan on the RW instead if Selanne is gone. That is his natural wing. Here is what I see:
Beleskey-Getzlaf-Perry
Blake-Koivu-Ryan
Sexton-Cogs-McMillan
DSP-Bonino-Parros
DSP and Beleskey will fight for the LW on the top line. McMillan can play either LW or RW and Sexton will take the other. Bell may challenge for a spot.
All this being said, what do we do with the 5 million we’d be under the internal cap?
With the players currently on the roster with NHL experience, I agree that Etem and Devo are going to really have to impress in order to get a sniff this season. Both are are behind at least 4 other forwards in terms of that experience at a pro level and are both only 19. I do feel that both for whatever reason seem to have that swagger and approach that few have at their age. So if they do thoroughly impress, maybe Murray can final answer Daniel’s prayers and ship “Creeper” aka Blake off to a cap floor team.
I for one can see the Ducks making the playoffs somehow next season if this were the scenario to play out. Besides Vancouver, Detroit, San Jose, Los Angeles and Nashville, I think the last 3 spots are up for grabs by whatever teams can put together 95 plus points. The Ducks will always have that chance as long as RPG and Hiller on in Ducks uniforms. Making it further, well, there Daniel unfortunately does make some good points. But you never know!
I think San Jose, Los Angeles, and Nashville
have some serious questions. San Jose and Los Angeles both overhauled their rosters and it remains to be seen how well the new lineups work out. As for Nashville, they may not be able to keep Weber and they already lost one of their key scorers (for a team that scores as little as Nashville, this could be devastating). I think, if there are any locks, it’s Detroit and Vancouver. And even then, I think Detroit is getting increasingly older, which will start to catch up with them soon.
by PhantomPretender on Aug 14, 2011 12:10 PM PDT reply actions
I don’t see any serious Questions for L.A. The main piece they moved for Richards was a prospect. Simmonds was a second to third line guy. The only question for LA will be if Penner can play to potential.
San Jose, I buy. Moving Setoguchi and Heatley is pretty major. Still, they have a souped up blue line and a pair of top liners who can be effective with different types of players around them in Thornton and Marleau. Mix in Pavelski, Coutoure and Havlat, and there’s a solid mix of up front talent.
I’ll give you Nashville too, this Weber drama is going to be tough for them. Personally, I think SJ, LA, and VAN are the top teams in the conference, followed by DET and CHI. Next to Anaheim, CHI probably has the best line in the league when they put Sharp, Toews, and Kane together.
I think the big thing with the Kings will be chemistry
Penner really didn’t play much with Kopitar and adding Richards to the mix might take some time to gel. I agree that they don’t have as many questions as San Jose, but it also remains to be seen how the Doughty situation plays out. Either way, I don’t see too many elite teams in the conference this year. All the more reason why we need to have a strong start to the year so we can set ourselves up well for a successful season.
by PhantomPretender on Aug 14, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you’re forgetting that Gagne and Richards have played together before. That’s going to help the team gel better. Richards has already done workouts with his new teammates. Even if it takes the first month for them to get it together, they’ll probably be able to string together enough wins in the back half of the season for it to not matter. The only question marks for the Kings are Doughty and goaltending. Otherwise, they’ll be competing for the division title all year.
As for elite teams in the West, I think your standards are too high. The five teams I listed are probably all going to be elite teams. Although, detroit will be one because of Babcock and not their players. The Ducks are in the middle third of the conference right now. They’ll be competing with Nashville, Dallas, Calgary, Columbus and maybe Minnesota for those last 3 playoff spots.
That’s if Gagne can stay healthy with his history of groin and concussion problems, I also think they’ll be missing Simmonds more than you realise.
That is a big if, but not as troublesome for a Kings team that managed to give San Jose a run for their money despite missing their best offensive player. This is a Kings team that’s used to doing without. If Gagne plays 40 games next year, it’ll be a win for the Kings.
No, they won’t miss him more than I realize. They’ll miss him about as much as they love Mike Richards. I think we’ve all missed the important thing that’s happened though. We’ve started talking about the things that needs to go wrong for the Kings, and the things that need to go right for the Ducks. That’s not the most ideal position.
Daniel you really think the Ducks are in the same category as Calgary, Dallas, and Columbus? Listen I really like Columbus’s forwards, but they have very little on the back end and possibly an even bigger question mark than us in the net. Dallas I think is destined to disappoint. They played well when no one was expecting them to, but as soon as everyone realized they were in first place that team completely folded on itself. Richards made that team’s offense dangerous, their D is extremely weak, and they need a good backup to take some starts away from Leitonien. As for Calgary they lost their best Dman and are going to be relying heavily on Iginla and Kippersoft to be superhuman YET AGAIN. That team just isnt that good.
I think Minnesota is solid top to bottom and could be very good next year. I think were much closer to teams like Detroit, Nashville, Minnesota, and St. Louis. If you look at that team they’ve got great forwards, depth at D, and solid Goaltending. I think this is the year they finally get back in the playoffs.
by Kevin Riach on Aug 15, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Scott Hannan is going to be a very solid replacement for Regehr. Kiprusoff can still carry a 60+ game load, something our goalie has never done. Even if you say Dallas folded, they still managed to finish right on the playoff doorstep. There’s still potential in that team. As for Columbus, I like the forwards, and Wiz will improve that PP. Playing in the other end will be good for Mason. I’ll admit they’re on the lower half of that third.
I think St. Louis has a great team on paper, but something just keeps getting in the way.
Yes, we’re mixing it up with those teams. It’s a long season and a lot of things can happen. On paper, this team doesn’t look like one that can win finish as one of the top 4-5 teams. We’ll be competing for one of the last three. You can put whatever teams in that category you want, but the Ducks will have to over achieve to finish 4th again.
by Daniel AC on Aug 15, 2011 2:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
At the time I wrote that they hadn’t signed Hannan yet, so I do agree with that statement. That being said I still you are overselling the depth of the Western conference. I think we are right there with Detroit (that is if Hiller returns). Kiprusoff has probably averaged more minutes than anyone else over the past 5-10 years except for maybe Broduer. Im sure he is going to start feeling that workload soon. Either way, that team did NOTHING to improve and they aren’t getting any younger. If they didn’t make it last season, the conference is going to have to be much weaker this year for them to sneak in. Dallas managed to finish just outside the doorstep because A) they were first after the mid point of the season and B) they got Richards back at the end and were able to stay somewhat competitive. There is no way they make the playoffs, their D is awful, and their forward depth is as bad as ours and they don’t have guys like RPG anchoring their top lines either. I agree about St. Louis but I think this is their year to do it, they had just a ridiculous string of injuries the last few years and have a ton of depth all around. I would say depending on some of our acquisitions turn out (Cogs, Foster) and our young talent progresses we are right there with Detroit for 4-5 best in the west, and I think a step above Nashville and the rest. This team is good, and has UPSIDE as well. But you are right, its a long season and a lot of things can happen.
I think your forgett there were some career years last year. I don’t think we should bank on Perry getting 50 again, Selanne reaching 80 points and Visnovsky getting in the neighborhood of 70. The stars really aligned for us offensively, and Hiller’s injury is just so damn mysterious. It’s honestly infuriating.
Detroit is such a machine that I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, I see vancouver, Chicago and San Jose as division winners right now. LA and Detroit after that. Maybe Nashville and then maybe us.
by Daniel AC on Aug 15, 2011 8:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
My bad
I totally forgot about the Kings. They do deserve to be up there. While I agree that Hiller’s injury is scary and frustrating I feel like things are going well for him and it doesn’t hurt that he’s working with one of the greatest goalie coaches of all time. And yes Visnosky and Perry both had career years but remember also that Ryan, Fowler, and Sbisa will continue to improve and that Getzlaf missed 15 games due to a freak injury. I think the added production between those things will help along with better third line production (no matter what, nothing will be worse than last year’s). I just think Selanne’s is the most deceptive due to his age, injury history, and the large spike in production. I think Visnosky has a chance too, although Dmen tend to be late bloomers and stay productive longer.
by Kevin Riach on Aug 15, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
You can definitely convince me that we’re the top of the bottom, but, on paper, I don’t see us cracking the top 10.
Then again, I’ve never been one to get my hopes up.
Do you mean top 10 in the West or the NHL? I would argue that if your willing to give Detroit the benefit you should give the Ducks it as well. Some of the best coaching in the NHL, elite level talent at the top, and good goaltending. The only difference is they have gotten guys to step in and play well in their depth roles where we have not. But I have faith that this is the year that changes.
Nothing the Ducks have done should be taken as an indicator that they have solved their depth issues. I won’t be persuaded on that until I see what 4th line faceoff guy Murray goes out and gets.
Finally, have you not learned anything about the MAGUMBO?!
The Flames signed Scott Hannan to a 1year deal for 1 mil
We definitely could have offered him that even with all our teemu issues and what not…here is the link: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=586061&navid=mod-rr-headlines
Ya, but we need forwards way more than we need defense at this point in time.
I know they are probably going to make me regret saying this, but I’m fine with Brookbank/Foster as our #6 dman.
We need more Boyntons.
Fire Carlye & Murray!
Please, Hannan’s too slow? You realize Murray has signed Sutton before, right? Nobody is too slow for this team.
Ok, sarcasm aside, Carlyle’s system is great for veteran D who can just do their job. As long as he doesn’t try to get involved in the play, the chances of him getting caught out of position are marginal at best.
Ya if we wouldn’t have signed Smaby I think Hannan would have been a great pick up at that price
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 14, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d only be ok with him as a 6 or 7 d-man but I just think Brookbank can do the same thing for us and we should spend the cash on forward depth instead.
I dont know if you can compare Brookbank to Hannan and I’m on the Foster bandwagon going into the season but if he doesn’t pan out we definitely need to add a solid and dependable dman. With that said, idk why Murray dropped a possible 600k on Smaby. I realize it was a 2 way deal, he has some potential, and could help shore up our d in Syracuse but with our internal budget we need to make it all count and we could use that money on forward depth and let our younger dmen get some quality minutes in Syracuse.
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 5:35 AM PDT up reply actions
They’re both immobile defensive defensemen with a physical edge, similiar age..they seem pretty comparable. I know Brookbank didnt have a great year last year but the season before last you can argue he was our most steady d-man. Give him a chance and if he struggles then try another option or improve via trade so we can actually move some salary out instead of just taking on another contract through Free Agency. As for Smaby I always saw him as a depth AHL signing who can fill in for injuries if needed.
Ya he was solid two years ago but in my opinion last year was his chance and Lilja outplayed him but I don’t have anything against him he is a player you want to root for but Hannan is much more proven and physical (he also outweighs Brookbank by 25 pounds). I don’t know how many times I have seen Sheldon get out muscled. Hannan is definitely an upgrade over Brookbank. Hopefully Kurtis Foster fits in well and performs then we will not even have to rely on Brookbank.. Back to my point on Smaby I think Foster/Brookbank/Carle are enough depth for our current defense I just don’t see where Smaby fits in but hey, hopefully Im wrong and he is a late bloomer who becomes the next Chris Pronger lol
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m also not saying I’m okay with our current defense and it’s depth…I really think we need to go after Weber or another top tier dman to be serious cup contenders but if we are staying with what we got I think our depth for a 6/7th dman is fine
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Smaby/Foster/Carle=Wisniewski/Eminger/ Boynton…?
I don’t know about Foster. Personally, I think offensive defensemen should fit into the top 4 or not at all. He doesn’t really have a physical side to his game. Maybe he can make it work with positioning, but I prefer a guy who’s 6’5" and 200+ to play a little more physical.
by Daniel AC on Aug 15, 2011 11:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Ya we will see what we get with Foster…If Foster has a good camp I’d like to see these pairings to start off the year though: Lubo/Lydman Foster/Beauchemain and Fowler/Sbisa…This way you can balance out the minutes for each pairing(at least the bottom 4), Beauchemain can cover up physically for Foster if he does not come around in that department, and let Fowler and Sbisa develop with one another.
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Makes me feel bad for Beauchemin.
by Daniel AC on Aug 15, 2011 4:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha I’m sure you and Francois will both feel better when we acquire Weber
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Can I just say this right now: we will NEVER get Shea Weber or Parise or any other of these top guys. Mostly because they don’t want to leave the teams they play for and their organizations don’t want them to leave either. But even then, the Ducks of all teams have no chance of getting these guys. I don’t mean to be a downer but I’m just tired of people talking about getting Doughty or Weber or whoever else. We wouldn’t even be able to afford two of the RPG line if we had one of these massive contracts anyway.
I’m gonna have to disagree with you on that one…Who would of thought that we would trade for Pronger? I realize the salary for a top-tier player is more today than it was back then but I still think it is possible and I think if we were smart about it we would only have to get rid of one of the members of the RPG line…I would give up Ryan and some other assets for Weber and if he was opposed to coming here, I don’t think it would take him long to realize playing in SoCal is a heck of a lot better than Tennessee
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we can, if Murray gets on it. The key is having young guys to provide depth, because they are cheap. Right now, we have the young talent to make one of those guys affordable. Even in a stretch we could make it work. I would argue it would be better to have a doughty or weber than Bobby, too.
by Daniel AC on Aug 15, 2011 8:55 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think you would be sacrificing more than just Ryan to acquire one of those two. Ryan wont command that type of salary but Perry and maybe Getzlaf would too. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but also keep in mind that the owners had a different mindset at that time too, and were willing to spend more. I just think if Murray were to do that (which again I don’t see happen due to the fact that I don’t think they will leave their current markets) we would be loosing assets in the long run just so we could make a “make it or break it” run for the Cup. I think you risk loosing one or more of Sbisa, Fowler, Ryan, Getzlaf, Perry, or any young guys that end up being great (DSP, Etem). It’s a risk I would rather not take, and in all honest I think we can win without either of those two.
by Kevin Riach on Aug 15, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Win the Cup? No. We simply don’t have the depth. One could make the argument that the Ducks couldn’t survive without Bobby Ryan for 2 games last playoffs.
I don’t think it’s a make it or break it run. If you put together a similar package as the Pronger deal, but with a better forward piece, you could get it done for Bobby Ryan and Justin Schultz. Doughty and Weber are both young enough that you don’t miss Schultz. It might also cost a first rounder. If you want to go the prospect route, open up the cupboard and say anything but DSP and Etem. If that’s not good enough, walk away. I think there’s plenty in the Ducks cupboard to entice someone even without those guys.
Haha my thoughts exactly Daniel we have the talent and depth in our prospect pool to make the deal happen. Especially when you consider how young Weber (just turned 26) and Doughty (21) are. Now I’ve just got to keep praying Murray will make it happen.
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 16, 2011 4:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not a man of faith, so I’ll get a voodoo doll or something and poke him until he makes the deal. I think it’s also time to say that, just because Murray won’t do it, doesn’t mean we can’t point out that he should do it. That’s what being critical is all about.
I would argue that Nashville and LA dont have any reason to rid themselves of either of those players. I don’t remember exactly why EDM was willing to deal Pronger, but I don’t think at this time either of those players or their teams will be parting ways anytime soon.
Pronger asked for that trade. Apparently, his wife hated Edmonton.
I think it depends on what the Kings think of their D prospects, or if they’re willing to give Doughty what he wants. As for Weber, he’s going to get moved eventually. Nashville can’t afford to let him walk away, and I think they also aren’t willing to pay him 7 a year. We could definitely afford to do it if we didn’t have Bobby Ryan.
Daniel what we need to do is go straight to the top and convince Samueli how great of an investment Shea would be. I dont know if we can count on Murray. Kevin I think at this time you’re right but if Nashville isn’t in it around trade deadline time they might not be willing to take the risk that Weber will walk after the season. Here are some more reasons Shea is a possibility for us: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/795526-music-city-blues-why-shea-webers-days-in-nashville-are-numbered
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 16, 2011 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
First off citing Bleacher Report is never a good idea. Secondly it doesn’t make sense for them to let him go. That team (no matter who plays forward) will stay competitive as long as they have Weber, Sutter, Rinne. They will have to move pieces around but they will keep them. Weber likes Nashville, hes the face of the franchise, and their captain. Name the last time someone like that was traded (Pronger requested a trade and that situation was different because of it).
Daughty is a different situation, but equally unlikely. The Kings are in a “win now and in the near future mode”. EVERYONE is predicting that they are going to be a beast next season, they brought in Richards and Gagne to be elite. Losing Doughty erases all of that and they still have the money to sign him. They better have another no.1 Dman they’ve been hiding that will be ready to play 1st pair minutes next season (hint: they dont)
by Kevin Riach on Aug 16, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
First off citing Bleacher Report is never a good idea.
I lawled at this ^^
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
Ya I was gonna write, “I know bleacher report isn’t the most reliable site but I think you can still get the picture” because I thought someone would say something, but I was too lazy, now I know though…regardless idk how you can say they will keep all 3 I guess you have a crystal ball, who is your source? Miss Cleo…what did you not understand about when I said that right now Nashville has no reason to part ways but if things don’t go well this year for them and they are out of the playoff picture come trade deadline time I think the deal is a possibility? If they are out of it then they are obviously not competitive enough. Maybe you should read what I actually wrote before you worry about what I cite? Just a thought.
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 17, 2011 3:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know, Bleacher Report is an analysis oriented segment. I see the point they are trying to make. I try to read each post for what it is. It’s not like using Eklund as a source, although he gets it right sometimes too.
Finally, I think Nashville has a tough summer coming up all of their big 3 will be coming up for renewal. I read something, I can’t remember what, that said Rinne was the most likely to go because they think Lindback is almost ready. Still, I don’t see a lot of organizations helping Nashville build a winner. Everyone wants to see one of those guys shaken out of the tree.
“Rams”: I didn’t mean to completely discredit your comment. I did read it, and I’m not trying to state things as absolute fact, but as an organization that has built itself on Defense and goaltending. In a very small market, with a very smart GM, it makes sense for them to do whatever is necessary to keep the face of their franchise. Weber wants to stay, the organization wants him to stay, and unless they just tank their season (which is very unlikely) there is no reason to get rid of him.
Daniel: I think your right. Rinne is the most expendable due to the fact that they have one of the best goaltending coaches, and just like the Ducks a few years ago, any goaltender they play can keep them competitive (hell Dan Ellis got them to the playoffs). I think they give Weber what he wants and let Rinne walk.
The other thing everyone is forgetting is that Nashville has increased attendance the last few years and making the playoffs has helped revenue for the team as well. Add in the fact that they might get a few more fans due to Atlanta leaving, and they will probably be willing to spend a little more money to keep a once in a lifetime guy like Weber.
by Kevin Riach on Aug 17, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you that Nashville should 100% do everything in their power to keep Weber. I think Acquiring Fisher is their way of saying they’ll try to build a winner for Weber. But…I still wonder if they’re willing to commit long term and give Weber that big pay day.
Honestly, I think it could go either way. It’s hard to tell with Nashville. I’m sure revenue is going up, but it’s still a pretty small market. I don’t know. We just have to see what happens, I guess.
Only if we can negotiate an extension beforehand. Bobby Ryan is too valuable a piece to be tossed away on a rental.
Ya I would just hold off until he is on the open market after this season and try to sign him. He definitely will not cost as much as Shea.
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 18, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know. I remember seeing something over at On The Forecheck examining Weber’s performance with Suter out of the line up and it was a little surprising. I think they are both phenomenal defenseman. It’s a strange situation; there’s an outside chance they are so good because they play together.
Bobby Ryan is too valuable a piece to be tossed away on a rental.
Have you turned a corner in regards to the Bobby discussions? ahaha
No doubt they are both great but I think that Suter is the cheaper of the 2, even if it is only by a million or two. Suter and Beauchemin would be a great number one pairing. Plus we wouldn’t have to rely so heavily on Lubo and Lydman, and force them to tear their shoulders apart like last season.
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 19, 2011 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know what you mean by turned a corner, Cal, but if you mean I recognize the need to get maximum value for our best trade asset, then yes.
ESPN Rumors
Has Ducks as a possible location for disgruntled Kostitsyn. Not sure about anyone else but I dislike this idea a lot.
It would only happen if Selanne retired. At that pint you need to dig up a 20 goal guy wherever you can.
by Daniel AC on Aug 15, 2011 4:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
For 3.25 and whatever we would have to trade I definitely dislike we could find a much better winger to take the reins from Teemu
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Second time this week I wish I could access ESPN rumors. I agree with Daniel, this only happens if Selanne retires. That being said it could be a nice pick up. His contract is actually perfect (1 year left, 2.5 mil) and then he goes RFA so we could easily resign him. He’s had attitude problems, but I’m willing to take that issue if it comes with the type of player that put up 50pts on the PREDATORS and managed to average .65 pts per game. Now those aren’t Teamu numbers, but I don’t even think Teamu himself could replicate those numbers. If you expect a drop from Teamu and an increase from Sergei (due to playing with better line mates) and you have something somewhat comparable. Plus it only has to last till the end of next season and then we can go and get whoever.
It’s Andrei being mentioned, not Sergei
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 15, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I just read the article on hockey news. It seems our name was thrown in more because of the Selanne situation rather than us actually being interested. Although I did see that Ottawa is also shopping Filip Kuba to teams at a discount. Daniel thoughts on him with Beauchemin?
Kuba is terrible, I’m also a fan of the Sens and it was painful to watch him play last year.. when he did play.
Yeah, I’m not sold on Kuna either. Hannan and White would have been ideal fits. Ultimately, I don’t think we should be spending assets on acquiring marginal D. Go big or sign a free agent.
by Daniel AC on Aug 15, 2011 9:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I can also picture the Ducks asking Big Mike Modano to come in if the great 8 hangs them up. Dump Blake and sign Modano for 1-2 Mil for a 1-year deal and you got something like this:
ETEM – GETZLAF – PERRY
RYAN – KOIVU – SEXTON
COGLIANO – MODANO – SMITH-PELLY
MCMILLAN – BONINO – BELESKEY/PARROS
Adam Oates, Jari Kurri, The Ducks have gotten some pretty good play from twilight hall of famers. Might be worth a gamble if we had to…
I think Drury would be a better and even more likely signing then Modano.
DSP-Getzlaf-Perry
Sexton-Koivu-Ryan
Drury-Cogliano-McMillan
Beleskey-Bonino/Bell-Parros
Top 3 lines all have a nice makeup of young and experienced talent. Just wish we had someone who won faceoffs. Maybe Offloading of Blake will yield that….
Drury should center the third line, not Cogliano. That would help solve the problem a little bit. Also, I think Ryan should play the left side, where he’s been playing the past 2 seasons so that Sexton can stay on his natural right side.
Ya I was really hoping to land Drury but he retired today: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;ylt=AtgjoRw.1sL8ORtNtQcL817vLYF?slug=ap-druryretires
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 19, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I just saw that too. He was pretty good awhile back, but I can just think of a fat little league pitcher whenever I think of him. Never was too fond of his style.
The guy was never much more than a solid second to third line center. Very strong defensively, got around the rink pretty well, and intangibles that were just off the chart. I mean, I think you have to say that a good portion of that U.S. silver medal at the last Olympics was Drury. He was the captain if memory serves.
I thought Modano just because of his experience and size. He doesn’t play all that physical but he uses his body effectively. He also can win faceoffs. And has excelled playing with grinders like Morrow and Langebrunner throughout his career…
Maybe it’s more of the nostalgia than anything…
I wouldnt mind John Madden as a penalty killing 3rd/4th line center if he can stay healthy, which won't be easy at 38
by Ramsrnumerouno on Aug 19, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I was just about to mention that Madden is still a free agent.
We need more Boyntons.
Fire Carlye & Murray!
I mentioned it before when Drury’s name was being shopped around. He has yet to have any serious injury problems but anything can happen once you pass 35. I would love to see us make an offer for Steckel in NJ too, but that probably wont happen.
by Kevin Riach on Aug 24, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya i would mostly agree with you about what they are capable of on the ice, but Madden would be a great locker room guy and he has won 3 Stanley Cups. I would be more comfortable with signing Madden and having Bonino ready to fill in for him if he gets hurt or let Bonino center the 4th line if Madden centers the third. I just really think he could be a great leader and help mentor some of the younger guys while playing a role on the club by killing penalties, aggressive fore-checking, and winning face-offs.
Yeah, I just think the Ducks need a veteran defensive presence in the bottom 6. I think it would go a long way to shoring up team D and helping some of our guys like McMillan and Bonino be around a true defensive forward. Not that Todd Marchant was bad; it’s just that he’s not in the locker room and those kids are still learning the ropes. I REALLY think we need a veteran presence in the bottom 6.
I somewhat agree. But with McMillan, Cogs, and Bonino all vying for time I don’t want to see youth get pushed out the door like it was with Marchant. I still think Chipchura was plenty capable of being a great 4th line center but never got the chance because Randy always went with Marchant. Give Bonino a shot on the 4th, and McMillan or Cogs on the 3rd. Play it like last year with D, where if things go wrong we can always go out and get a stop gap for the first half and then upgrade at the trade deadline. It’s not ideal, but neither is going out and getting people when you have the pieces already. Whether people want to admit it or not, this team is in a youth movement and I’m excited to see who comes out of it. I’m just look at our under 25 year old forwards: Palmari, Bonino, Maroon, Etem, DSP, McMillan, Cogs, Sexton, Beleskey. Add in Bell and I think we can find at least some of the pieces we need to fill out the bottom 2 lines.
by Kevin Riach on Aug 24, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m sure this is a little late and the conversation has moved on, but I think most of our personnel problems have been the result of the stop gap method you mentioned. Murray seems content to put plug leaks with chewing gum, instead of going out and getting a real solution.
If we’re having a youth movement, then we should have a youth movement. However, I don’t need the GM telling me at exit meetings that simply making the playoffs isn’t enough, but then gearing up the forward crew to be half guys who have less than 100 games in the league.
by Daniel AC on Aug 24, 2011 1:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What did you want him to say during the exit meetings? “Well I was actually surprised we made it as far as we did”? Of course he’s going to say he’s going to expect better, thats what he’s supposed to say. In all honesty we will probably make the playoffs again next year. I love that we demand excellence, but our owner isn’t exactly in a position to pay for it. We need to realize that some years making the playoffs is going to have to be good enough.
I think that’s 100% acceptable, but don’t lie about it. Say “we’ll continue to do everything within our means to ice the most competitive team possible. Clearly, we need to make some improvements, and we’ll address those as best we can this summer.” See, it doesn’t set a standard, it just says better and competitive. I’m not asking for blood, just careful message construction from a professional.
Maybe it’s because communication is part of my job, but I expect the guy to be more disciplined.
by Daniel AC on Aug 24, 2011 4:15 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
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